1 00:00:03,139 --> 00:00:02,389 and it hits me oh my gosh this is that 2 00:00:04,249 --> 00:00:03,149 triangle 3 00:00:05,390 --> 00:00:04,259 you know there's explanation for 4 00:00:07,550 --> 00:00:05,400 everything that occurred in the 5 00:00:10,070 --> 00:00:07,560 Rendlesham forest incident that involved 6 00:00:13,450 --> 00:00:10,080 aliens at all it was completely silent 7 00:00:16,609 --> 00:00:13,460 it comes right over our head it's so 8 00:00:18,260 --> 00:00:16,619 classic flying-saucer really standing in 9 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:18,270 the clearing he turned over to my father 10 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:19,770 and held his hand and he looked in his 11 00:00:26,150 --> 00:00:23,730 eyes they said we're not alone welcome 12 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:26,160 to podcast UFO please remember to visit 13 00:00:32,089 --> 00:00:29,970 the website podcast UFO comm check out 14 00:00:35,090 --> 00:00:32,099 the latest blogs and forums and while 15 00:00:37,370 --> 00:00:35,100 you're there don't forget to like a very 16 00:00:38,780 --> 00:00:37,380 active Facebook page hello and welcome 17 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:38,790 to the show on Martin Willis your host 18 00:00:42,830 --> 00:00:40,530 we have a great one lined up for you 19 00:00:45,260 --> 00:00:42,840 today our guest is Shane Ryan 20 00:00:47,540 --> 00:00:45,270 investigator of the Westall Flying 21 00:00:50,709 --> 00:00:47,550 Saucer incident one of my favorites that 22 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:50,719 happened back in 1966 down in Australia 23 00:00:56,150 --> 00:00:53,730 today is a pre-recorded show airing on 24 00:00:58,639 --> 00:00:56,160 Christmas Day on the dark matter radio 25 00:01:00,760 --> 00:00:58,649 network for those of you that celebrate 26 00:01:04,549 --> 00:01:00,770 May you have a warm and happy Christmas 27 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:04,559 next week as all weeks ahead we will be 28 00:01:09,980 --> 00:01:06,930 broadcasting live on Dark Matter radio 29 00:01:15,830 --> 00:01:09,990 net at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time 30 00:01:18,010 --> 00:01:15,840 1:00 a.m. GMT / UTC well Santa brought 31 00:01:20,929 --> 00:01:18,020 me some new state-of-the-art equipment 32 00:01:23,450 --> 00:01:20,939 well actually with the help of your kind 33 00:01:25,940 --> 00:01:23,460 donations our live shows should be a 34 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:25,950 much better sound quality starting next 35 00:01:28,370 --> 00:01:27,930 week I have a lot of people to thank for 36 00:01:31,370 --> 00:01:28,380 that 37 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:31,380 some are monthly subscribers and some of 38 00:01:35,090 --> 00:01:33,210 you have kicked in some generous sums 39 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:35,100 along the way I really appreciate that 40 00:01:39,980 --> 00:01:37,530 just a quick shout out I want to thank 41 00:01:40,940 --> 00:01:39,990 you Phil for all your generous donations 42 00:01:44,780 --> 00:01:40,950 Peggy 43 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:44,790 very nice Matthew a Michael that 44 00:01:49,730 --> 00:01:46,770 recently donated just a few days ago 45 00:01:52,910 --> 00:01:49,740 Scott who has been with me since day one 46 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:52,920 Gareth Katie besides donating from Down 47 00:01:55,399 --> 00:01:53,369 Under 48 00:01:58,100 --> 00:01:55,409 she was instrumental in connecting me to 49 00:01:59,990 --> 00:01:58,110 today's fine guests Thank You Katie 50 00:02:01,580 --> 00:02:00,000 and I know there's some people out there 51 00:02:04,249 --> 00:02:01,590 that I'm forgetting and I'm sorry about 52 00:02:08,389 --> 00:02:04,259 that well since this is the last show of 53 00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:08,399 2013 I've been reflecting on what a 54 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:10,830 banner year this has been I got to go to 55 00:02:13,309 --> 00:02:12,810 a number of conferences meet some 56 00:02:16,250 --> 00:02:13,319 wonderful 57 00:02:18,410 --> 00:02:16,260 people we went from a biweekly show to a 58 00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:18,420 weekly show and I could have never done 59 00:02:22,940 --> 00:02:20,760 all this alone I want to first of all 60 00:02:24,649 --> 00:02:22,950 thank all the great guests that we had 61 00:02:26,839 --> 00:02:24,659 on back in 2013 62 00:02:29,179 --> 00:02:26,849 and I also want to thank Michael Luke 63 00:02:31,729 --> 00:02:29,189 who had done some wonderful work with 64 00:02:34,789 --> 00:02:31,739 the new segment however Michael cannot 65 00:02:36,770 --> 00:02:34,799 be on our live shows as the schedule 66 00:02:39,319 --> 00:02:36,780 just doesn't work I've gotten a ton of 67 00:02:42,860 --> 00:02:39,329 email for people wanting our news back 68 00:02:44,569 --> 00:02:42,870 so Sam moranto who just joined us he 69 00:02:47,059 --> 00:02:44,579 will be doing the news at the beginning 70 00:02:49,039 --> 00:02:47,069 of our show starting next week and I 71 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:49,049 also want to thank Sam for coming aboard 72 00:02:55,039 --> 00:02:53,010 I certainly want to thank Peggy for the 73 00:02:57,920 --> 00:02:55,049 hundreds of hours she's donated in 74 00:03:00,619 --> 00:02:57,930 admitting our Facebook page that page 75 00:03:04,309 --> 00:03:00,629 grew from about 2,000 likes up to about 76 00:03:06,830 --> 00:03:04,319 66 hundred now she started posting the 77 00:03:10,129 --> 00:03:06,840 latest happenings in UFOs astronomy and 78 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:10,139 technology every single day and I'm 79 00:03:14,449 --> 00:03:12,090 indebted to you Peggy for that thank you 80 00:03:17,929 --> 00:03:14,459 mark Simha is helping us out from 81 00:03:20,479 --> 00:03:17,939 Beijing as our China UFO correspondent 82 00:03:22,580 --> 00:03:20,489 thank you mark I also want to thank you 83 00:03:25,759 --> 00:03:22,590 Phil for suggesting me - Keith Roland 84 00:03:27,710 --> 00:03:25,769 for the dark matter radio network Thank 85 00:03:29,629 --> 00:03:27,720 You Phil and also Thank You Keith for 86 00:03:31,879 --> 00:03:29,639 the great job you're doing I'm getting 87 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:31,889 close to the end now I want to thank 88 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:34,530 Kerry Lloyd Whitehouse for the music he 89 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:37,530 provides for the show he made our intro 90 00:03:41,869 --> 00:03:39,930 and outro Thank You Kerry and lastly I 91 00:03:44,030 --> 00:03:41,879 want to thank the most important part of 92 00:03:46,849 --> 00:03:44,040 the show and that is you our listener 93 00:03:48,469 --> 00:03:46,859 thank you for listening thank you for 94 00:03:51,319 --> 00:03:48,479 spreading the word about the show and 95 00:03:53,210 --> 00:03:51,329 the great reviews you have left and all 96 00:03:57,140 --> 00:03:53,220 the feedback I get from you through 97 00:04:01,999 --> 00:03:57,150 email good and bad you can contact me by 98 00:04:06,619 --> 00:04:02,009 the way at Martin at podcast UFO com we 99 00:04:09,890 --> 00:04:06,629 have 79 free podcasts on our podcast UFO 100 00:04:12,229 --> 00:04:09,900 comm website plus blogs and our forum 101 00:04:14,569 --> 00:04:12,239 you can always find pertinent links to 102 00:04:17,300 --> 00:04:14,579 our shows in our show notes every single 103 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:17,310 week well that's enough of me rambling 104 00:04:21,860 --> 00:04:19,530 hang in there and we'll be right back 105 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:21,870 with our hour and 20 minute interview 106 00:06:29,260 --> 00:04:25,110 with Shane Ryan on the west wall flying 107 00:06:35,540 --> 00:06:32,110 all right I'm with Shane Ryan in 108 00:06:37,010 --> 00:06:35,550 Australia and you were like I'm 109 00:06:37,870 --> 00:06:37,020 traveling into the future you're a day 110 00:06:40,820 --> 00:06:37,880 ahead of me 111 00:06:43,010 --> 00:06:40,830 how are you shamed g'day mats and hello 112 00:06:45,530 --> 00:06:43,020 from Canberra and very warm greetings 113 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:45,540 from Canberra and literally so it's a 114 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:48,210 very warm 36 degrees here today which is 115 00:06:54,910 --> 00:06:52,290 about 97 degrees Fahrenheit so it's 116 00:06:57,260 --> 00:06:54,920 lovely to be part of your program and 117 00:07:00,080 --> 00:06:57,270 merry Christmas to everybody who's 118 00:07:02,980 --> 00:07:00,090 listening to this podcast yeah i know 119 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:02,990 you i always forget about the opposite 120 00:07:07,310 --> 00:07:05,490 seasons we have a well not always forget 121 00:07:11,660 --> 00:07:07,320 but it's sometimes so forget about it 122 00:07:14,780 --> 00:07:11,670 and so you always live your Christmases 123 00:07:16,550 --> 00:07:14,790 in the the hut times and we're always 124 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:16,560 freezing here which it is right now 125 00:07:23,030 --> 00:07:19,050 that's exactly right santa claus wears 126 00:07:25,130 --> 00:07:23,040 away as of bikini in australia and this 127 00:07:29,030 --> 00:07:25,140 this show is airing on christmas day so 128 00:07:31,490 --> 00:07:29,040 how fitting yes that's right exactly and 129 00:07:34,310 --> 00:07:31,500 it's a real pleasure martin to be part 130 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:34,320 of your program and i really am grateful 131 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:37,290 to you for giving me the opportunity to 132 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:40,290 make this wonderful story about the 1966 133 00:07:46,310 --> 00:07:43,410 West or Flying Saucer incident better 134 00:07:49,460 --> 00:07:46,320 known yes well I think it's it's one of 135 00:07:52,219 --> 00:07:49,470 the most intriguing cases that I've ever 136 00:07:54,020 --> 00:07:52,229 looked into and I've always been really 137 00:07:56,260 --> 00:07:54,030 fascinated with it with all the 138 00:07:58,640 --> 00:07:56,270 witnesses and the teachers and and 139 00:08:00,469 --> 00:07:58,650 everything can for the person that is 140 00:08:04,250 --> 00:08:00,479 not familiar with the case it was April 141 00:08:06,020 --> 00:08:04,260 6 wasn't 1966 that's exactly right 142 00:08:08,900 --> 00:08:06,030 so why don't you go ahead and give like 143 00:08:12,530 --> 00:08:08,910 a sort of in a nutshell the the story 144 00:08:15,290 --> 00:08:12,540 about what exactly happened sure 145 00:08:18,830 --> 00:08:15,300 as you say did happen 47 years ago in 146 00:08:21,260 --> 00:08:18,840 1966 so it's not a recent story by any 147 00:08:25,010 --> 00:08:21,270 means but it's an absolutely fascinating 148 00:08:27,170 --> 00:08:25,020 story and it's still to this day amazes 149 00:08:30,290 --> 00:08:27,180 me that it was able to stay under the 150 00:08:33,380 --> 00:08:30,300 radar for such a long time and it was 151 00:08:35,540 --> 00:08:33,390 able to be you know in many ways I think 152 00:08:38,180 --> 00:08:35,550 swept under the carpet and and kept 153 00:08:39,949 --> 00:08:38,190 quiet but of course in the memories of 154 00:08:42,319 --> 00:08:39,959 the people who were there that day it 155 00:08:45,069 --> 00:08:42,329 was very much still alive as 156 00:08:47,809 --> 00:08:45,079 memory and alive as an issue for them 157 00:08:51,439 --> 00:08:47,819 but basically what happened it was 158 00:08:54,340 --> 00:08:51,449 Wednesday the 6th of April in 1966 it 159 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:54,350 was the Wednesday before Good Friday and 160 00:08:59,720 --> 00:08:56,730 so that means it was the Wednesday 161 00:09:02,660 --> 00:08:59,730 before the Easter break in Australia we 162 00:09:04,850 --> 00:09:02,670 have a long weekend for Easter 163 00:09:08,619 --> 00:09:04,860 Good Friday Saturday Sunday and Monday 164 00:09:11,419 --> 00:09:08,629 and it was also the Wednesday before 165 00:09:14,780 --> 00:09:11,429 school broke up for the end of term 166 00:09:17,299 --> 00:09:14,790 holidays so holidays going for two weeks 167 00:09:18,590 --> 00:09:17,309 and that's an important issue and we 168 00:09:21,979 --> 00:09:18,600 might come back to that a little bit 169 00:09:25,789 --> 00:09:21,989 later but the setting is a place called 170 00:09:29,119 --> 00:09:25,799 Westall which was a neighborhood a 171 00:09:32,629 --> 00:09:29,129 community within the modern suburb of 172 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:32,639 Clayton South in the south eastern 173 00:09:41,660 --> 00:09:35,910 suburbs of Melbourne about 21 kilometers 174 00:09:45,439 --> 00:09:41,670 from the Melbourne CBD and the setting 175 00:09:48,409 --> 00:09:45,449 was a couple of schools a secondary 176 00:09:51,199 --> 00:09:48,419 school called Westall high school and an 177 00:09:54,259 --> 00:09:51,209 adjacent primary school called West all 178 00:09:57,919 --> 00:09:54,269 state school and at about 10:15 in the 179 00:10:00,319 --> 00:09:57,929 morning a couple of classes of high 180 00:10:03,799 --> 00:10:00,329 school kids were out on the sports 181 00:10:06,049 --> 00:10:03,809 ground and one of the classes at least 182 00:10:08,539 --> 00:10:06,059 was playing cricket another class was 183 00:10:11,569 --> 00:10:08,549 playing something else and it was a 184 00:10:13,939 --> 00:10:11,579 mixture of boys and girls and there were 185 00:10:17,809 --> 00:10:13,949 a couple of teachers with the classes as 186 00:10:21,019 --> 00:10:17,819 well and then suddenly completely out of 187 00:10:25,569 --> 00:10:21,029 the blue completely unexpected this 188 00:10:29,449 --> 00:10:25,579 flying saucer flew in and it flew in 189 00:10:31,249 --> 00:10:29,459 completely silently and the only thing 190 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:31,259 that drew people's attention to it was 191 00:10:36,850 --> 00:10:33,569 the fact that somebody happened to look 192 00:10:40,009 --> 00:10:36,860 up and notice that it was in the sky and 193 00:10:41,419 --> 00:10:40,019 of course the word went around very 194 00:10:43,579 --> 00:10:41,429 quickly on the sports ground that 195 00:10:46,359 --> 00:10:43,589 something was in the air and that 196 00:10:50,059 --> 00:10:46,369 something was what the children 197 00:10:52,609 --> 00:10:50,069 immediately described using the language 198 00:10:55,610 --> 00:10:52,619 of the day a flying saucer 199 00:10:59,240 --> 00:10:55,620 we had the shape of 200 00:11:01,820 --> 00:10:59,250 a bowl turned upside down or as one 201 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:01,830 witness described at a cup turned upside 202 00:11:07,610 --> 00:11:04,170 down and sitting on a saucer so that 203 00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:07,620 sort of classic flying saucer shape that 204 00:11:14,329 --> 00:11:09,360 were also familiar with now of course 205 00:11:17,180 --> 00:11:14,339 and one of the students a form one 206 00:11:19,820 --> 00:11:17,190 student so that means a first-year high 207 00:11:24,380 --> 00:11:19,830 school student broke away from the 208 00:11:26,750 --> 00:11:24,390 physical education class and ran into 209 00:11:30,650 --> 00:11:26,760 the school buildings and went straight 210 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:30,660 to the classroom of the male science 211 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:32,850 teacher a man called mr. Andrew 212 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:35,730 Greenwood and she raced into his class 213 00:11:41,150 --> 00:11:38,490 flung open the sliding door and raced in 214 00:11:44,540 --> 00:11:41,160 saying mr. Greenwood mr. Greenwood 215 00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:44,550 there's a flying saucer outside and of 216 00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:46,310 course at that the whole classroom 217 00:11:51,530 --> 00:11:49,800 erupted and the students got up from 218 00:11:54,050 --> 00:11:51,540 their desks and raced over to the 219 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:54,060 windows and at that time from their 220 00:11:57,980 --> 00:11:55,650 windows in their classroom they could 221 00:12:00,620 --> 00:11:57,990 see straight on to the sports ground and 222 00:12:02,750 --> 00:12:00,630 sure enough through their windows some 223 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:02,760 of them at least could see this flying 224 00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:05,610 saucer in the sky now the teacher mr. 225 00:12:09,070 --> 00:12:07,110 Greenwood was very surprised by this 226 00:12:12,110 --> 00:12:09,080 turn of events as you could imagine and 227 00:12:14,570 --> 00:12:12,120 he was very upset that this student had 228 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:14,580 interrupted his class and at that time 229 00:12:20,510 --> 00:12:17,250 in 1966 a child doing something like 230 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:20,520 that of course was really unheard of met 231 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:22,290 you would burst into a teacher's 232 00:12:29,290 --> 00:12:26,130 classroom and interrupt the class he got 233 00:12:32,690 --> 00:12:29,300 rather irate rather upset and sent the 234 00:12:36,260 --> 00:12:32,700 student on her way and did his best to 235 00:12:37,460 --> 00:12:36,270 calm the class in front of him he only 236 00:12:40,250 --> 00:12:37,470 had a couple of minutes to go though 237 00:12:44,329 --> 00:12:40,260 before the recess bell went and when 238 00:12:47,390 --> 00:12:44,339 that happened he went outside and he 239 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:47,400 went out onto the sports ground and all 240 00:12:51,470 --> 00:12:48,810 of the students from his science class 241 00:12:53,210 --> 00:12:51,480 followed a course and when he got out 242 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:53,220 there on to the sports ground along with 243 00:13:00,140 --> 00:12:55,650 all of the students sure enough there 244 00:13:04,829 --> 00:13:00,150 was this strange flying saucer shaped 245 00:13:09,489 --> 00:13:08,289 the recess Bell had gone so all of the 246 00:13:11,889 --> 00:13:09,499 students came pouring out of their 247 00:13:13,929 --> 00:13:11,899 classrooms and very quickly like a 248 00:13:16,059 --> 00:13:13,939 wildfire the word got around the school 249 00:13:17,739 --> 00:13:16,069 that something was going on and a lot of 250 00:13:19,660 --> 00:13:17,749 the students were very surprised to come 251 00:13:21,939 --> 00:13:19,670 out and see something that they weren't 252 00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:21,949 used to seeing and that was all of the 253 00:13:27,549 --> 00:13:25,519 kids doing physical education still in 254 00:13:30,879 --> 00:13:27,559 their physical education uniforms and 255 00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:30,889 hanging off the boundary fences but all 256 00:13:36,609 --> 00:13:33,529 raced over to the boundary fences jumped 257 00:13:38,829 --> 00:13:36,619 up on top and were trying to peer at 258 00:13:41,799 --> 00:13:38,839 this flying saucer trying to get closer 259 00:13:44,109 --> 00:13:41,809 to it trying to get a a closer look and 260 00:13:46,239 --> 00:13:44,119 mr. Greenwood when he gave an interview 261 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:46,249 on the subject the following year to a 262 00:13:52,379 --> 00:13:49,970 famous American researcher that you and 263 00:13:55,780 --> 00:13:52,389 your listeners would know well dr. James 264 00:13:58,239 --> 00:13:55,790 McDonald described that's right Jim 265 00:13:59,889 --> 00:13:58,249 McDonald he described that about 266 00:14:01,749 --> 00:13:59,899 three-quarters of the student of the 267 00:14:04,030 --> 00:14:01,759 school's four hundred and eighty five 268 00:14:06,879 --> 00:14:04,040 students were out on the sports ground 269 00:14:09,819 --> 00:14:06,889 and watching and watching this flying 270 00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:09,829 saucer for the students who were on the 271 00:14:14,979 --> 00:14:12,649 sports ground they got of course the 272 00:14:16,749 --> 00:14:14,989 very best look at the Flying Saucer 273 00:14:19,929 --> 00:14:16,759 because they were there when it first 274 00:14:22,569 --> 00:14:19,939 appeared and some of the witnesses have 275 00:14:27,460 --> 00:14:22,579 described described the flying saucer 276 00:14:30,729 --> 00:14:27,470 flying so low that it came down at about 277 00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:30,739 the same height as the goal posts that 278 00:14:35,979 --> 00:14:33,110 were on the sports ground or about the 279 00:14:38,019 --> 00:14:35,989 tops of the trees and that it was so low 280 00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:38,029 that some of the students feared it was 281 00:14:43,359 --> 00:14:41,360 about to either land on the school 282 00:14:47,229 --> 00:14:43,369 property or perhaps that was going to 283 00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:47,239 crash and for some of the students this 284 00:14:52,329 --> 00:14:49,790 was an exciting experience 285 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:52,339 for some of them it was a rather more 286 00:15:00,159 --> 00:14:57,410 frightening experience and then after 287 00:15:02,650 --> 00:15:00,169 flying around the skies above the 288 00:15:05,919 --> 00:15:02,660 schools and when I say it was flying 289 00:15:08,350 --> 00:15:05,929 around the students described the manner 290 00:15:10,809 --> 00:15:08,360 that this craft flew it was quite 291 00:15:13,539 --> 00:15:10,819 extraordinary one of the things that you 292 00:15:16,359 --> 00:15:13,549 have to recall is that the southern 293 00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:16,369 hemispheres busiest airport certainly 294 00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:18,110 Australia's busiest airport 295 00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:20,480 Alban second airport at that time an 296 00:15:25,449 --> 00:15:23,600 airport called Moorabbin Airport there's 297 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:25,459 only about four kilometers up the road 298 00:15:32,199 --> 00:15:28,970 from the two schools and so the students 299 00:15:35,380 --> 00:15:32,209 were very very used to seeing aircraft 300 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:35,390 especially light aircraft flying around 301 00:15:44,019 --> 00:15:40,970 the skies above the schools and so when 302 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:44,029 this object appeared it was immediately 303 00:15:48,490 --> 00:15:45,970 obvious to them that it was something 304 00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:48,500 completely unlike any aircraft that they 305 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:49,279 had seen before 306 00:15:55,180 --> 00:15:52,010 and in fact to them it seemed obvious 307 00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:55,190 that it wasn't applying it wasn't an 308 00:16:00,850 --> 00:15:57,440 aircraft in the conventional sense of 309 00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:00,860 the word and not only did it not look 310 00:16:07,690 --> 00:16:03,769 like an aircraft it didn't fly like an 311 00:16:10,180 --> 00:16:07,700 aircraft it sometimes hovered almost as 312 00:16:12,430 --> 00:16:10,190 if it was standing still sometimes it 313 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:12,440 would fly very slowly and then at other 314 00:16:19,180 --> 00:16:15,410 times it flew completely erratically it 315 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:19,190 appeared to almost as if it could blink 316 00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:21,890 off on one side of the sky and then 317 00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:24,320 blink on again on the other side of the 318 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:26,720 sky and we're witnesses who have talked 319 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:28,970 to me about this have said we're not 320 00:16:33,819 --> 00:16:31,130 sure if it was actually blinking off and 321 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:33,829 blinking on again or if it was just that 322 00:16:39,699 --> 00:16:36,890 it was flying so fast that's how our 323 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:39,709 brains that's how our eyes interpreted 324 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:43,370 the manner of its of its flight and it 325 00:16:47,319 --> 00:16:44,930 would make sharp turns 326 00:16:51,069 --> 00:16:47,329 it would fly vertically and then 327 00:16:55,090 --> 00:16:51,079 horizontally so flying in ways that were 328 00:16:58,300 --> 00:16:55,100 completely unusual and and unprecedented 329 00:17:02,430 --> 00:16:58,310 and while doing all of this the flying 330 00:17:05,650 --> 00:17:02,440 saucer was making absolutely no noise or 331 00:17:08,199 --> 00:17:05,660 next to no noise some students remember 332 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:08,209 it making perhaps a very slight humming 333 00:17:13,780 --> 00:17:10,010 noise they're not completely sure 334 00:17:17,140 --> 00:17:13,790 because running at the southern boundary 335 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:17,150 of the high school was in 1966 and 336 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:18,850 they're still there today 337 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:22,730 high tension power lines supported by 338 00:17:27,250 --> 00:17:25,610 huge power pylons and sometimes the 339 00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:27,260 students would hear those power lines 340 00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:30,559 humming course so whatever this object 341 00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:31,740 was it 342 00:17:38,030 --> 00:17:34,710 was absolutely silent all or virtually 343 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:38,040 silent and then after a few minutes of 344 00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:41,370 flying around the object was saying to 345 00:17:48,830 --> 00:17:46,110 fly to a point about 400 meters south of 346 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:48,840 the school a place called the Grange 347 00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:51,330 which was an old farming property which 348 00:17:58,460 --> 00:17:56,640 in 1966 was in ruins but the the 349 00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:58,470 physical property the land was still 350 00:18:03,710 --> 00:18:00,720 there and it was an area that was well 351 00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:03,720 known to the students and the flying 352 00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:07,320 saucer was seen to fly down there to a 353 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:11,910 grove of pine trees which were also very 354 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:14,010 well known to the students and then it 355 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:17,910 was seen to come down seem to descend as 356 00:18:24,890 --> 00:18:21,090 if it was landing and having seen that 357 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:24,900 and because the students did see it so 358 00:18:29,450 --> 00:18:26,850 many of the students in fact a huge 359 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:29,460 chunk of the student population did what 360 00:18:34,220 --> 00:18:31,890 they knew was very much against the 361 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:34,230 school rules particularly in those days 362 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:37,710 and they left the school property they 363 00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:40,170 jumped the boundary fence they 364 00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:43,740 maneuvered a ditch a sewage ditch a 365 00:18:49,490 --> 00:18:45,750 drainage ditch that lined the side of 366 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:49,500 the road they ran over the dirt road 367 00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:51,210 that was at the southern boundary of the 368 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:54,480 school and crossed into the market 369 00:19:00,560 --> 00:18:57,690 garden areas that were on the boundary 370 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:00,570 of the schools and ran down some dirt 371 00:19:06,049 --> 00:19:03,450 tracks in search of their quarry and 372 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:06,059 they were quite certain they you know 373 00:19:11,870 --> 00:19:09,090 within a few meters knew where to run 374 00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:11,880 because they'd seen the object come down 375 00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:16,230 and a small group of students I'm not 376 00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:19,320 exactly sure how many but at least 377 00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:24,000 several were lucky enough I use that 378 00:19:29,330 --> 00:19:26,760 term lucky enough in inverted commas if 379 00:19:32,299 --> 00:19:29,340 you like to get down to the Grange in 380 00:19:34,370 --> 00:19:32,309 time to see the object still on the 381 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:34,380 ground or at least hovering very close 382 00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:37,890 to the ground and one of the form one 383 00:19:43,150 --> 00:19:40,559 female students say a girl called Terry 384 00:19:46,060 --> 00:19:43,160 her name was Theresa Terry 385 00:19:49,630 --> 00:19:46,070 she tells the story of getting down to 386 00:19:51,370 --> 00:19:49,640 the Grange a little bit behind the first 387 00:19:54,450 --> 00:19:51,380 group of students and she arrived at the 388 00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:54,460 Grange in time to see the flying object 389 00:19:59,170 --> 00:19:57,200 either on the ground or just lifting up 390 00:20:01,150 --> 00:19:59,180 off the ground and two other female 391 00:20:03,970 --> 00:20:01,160 students fainted in front of her one 392 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:03,980 still lying on the dirt another one just 393 00:20:08,590 --> 00:20:06,050 picking herself up from the dirt and 394 00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:08,600 there were a couple of male students a 395 00:20:12,910 --> 00:20:10,310 couple of boys there as well standing a 396 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:12,920 little bit further back and she watched 397 00:20:20,140 --> 00:20:15,490 in complete amazement as this object 398 00:20:23,950 --> 00:20:20,150 lifted up again silently tilted on to 399 00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:23,960 its side and then ascended into the air 400 00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:28,480 and then at an angle flew off at a 401 00:20:36,910 --> 00:20:31,910 incredible speed and and flew away 402 00:20:39,070 --> 00:20:36,920 within seconds virtually and obviously 403 00:20:41,860 --> 00:20:39,080 this was an incredible sight for this 404 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:41,870 girl and for the other students who were 405 00:20:47,170 --> 00:20:43,610 there in time to experience that for 406 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:47,180 most of the students they didn't arrive 407 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:50,810 quite that quickly and by the time they 408 00:20:58,420 --> 00:20:55,250 arrived at the Grange they weren't there 409 00:21:02,100 --> 00:20:58,430 to see the object on the ground but they 410 00:21:05,790 --> 00:21:02,110 found this huge circle some say there 411 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:05,800 was more than one circle of flattened 412 00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:09,530 swirled grass the area around the pine 413 00:21:17,410 --> 00:21:14,000 trees was grassy paddocks and the grass 414 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:17,420 was all flattened down swirled down 415 00:21:23,380 --> 00:21:20,810 pressed down quite flat against against 416 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:23,390 the ground swirl down in one direction 417 00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:25,310 most of the witnesses remember it as 418 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:28,430 being in a anti-clockwise direction and 419 00:21:35,530 --> 00:21:31,130 many of the witnesses recall there being 420 00:21:39,580 --> 00:21:35,540 a definite perimeter to the circle the 421 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:39,590 perimeter of the circle the the edges of 422 00:21:46,530 --> 00:21:43,090 the circle were discolored in some way 423 00:21:49,690 --> 00:21:46,540 as if they'd been affected by heat 424 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:49,700 perhaps they've been seams not that 425 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:51,410 they'd been burnt that but somehow 426 00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:53,450 something had happened to the grass to 427 00:21:56,270 --> 00:21:55,760 change its colour the rest of the grass 428 00:21:58,460 --> 00:21:56,280 in there 429 00:22:01,370 --> 00:21:58,470 the circle its color was still the same 430 00:22:03,710 --> 00:22:01,380 and many of the witnesses remember in 431 00:22:07,130 --> 00:22:03,720 the center of the circle there was 432 00:22:10,250 --> 00:22:07,140 something like a hub the grass was still 433 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:10,260 standing and it formed a central 434 00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:13,170 circular hub in the middle of this much 435 00:22:21,530 --> 00:22:19,200 larger circle so that's the story at 436 00:22:23,030 --> 00:22:21,540 least up to that point first of all I 437 00:22:26,510 --> 00:22:23,040 want to talk about the the two girls 438 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:26,520 that had fainted I know first of all was 439 00:22:29,660 --> 00:22:27,930 there any speculation and why they 440 00:22:32,690 --> 00:22:29,670 fainted and one girl I understood was 441 00:22:34,490 --> 00:22:32,700 taken away in like a ambulance and never 442 00:22:37,330 --> 00:22:34,500 came back to school is that is that 443 00:22:39,470 --> 00:22:37,340 correct that is correct in terms of the 444 00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:39,480 student witness who tells the story of 445 00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:41,840 seeing the two other girls fainted she 446 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:44,520 directly directly attributes their 447 00:22:49,370 --> 00:22:47,250 condition of course to the flying saucer 448 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:49,380 that was in front of them now she 449 00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:51,570 doesn't of course to know exactly what 450 00:22:56,570 --> 00:22:54,240 happened she doesn't recall the names of 451 00:22:58,910 --> 00:22:56,580 those two girls and I've tried very hard 452 00:23:01,970 --> 00:22:58,920 over the last eight years since I 453 00:23:04,010 --> 00:23:01,980 started my research to make contact with 454 00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:04,020 those particular girls find out who they 455 00:23:08,750 --> 00:23:07,470 were but haven't yet been successful but 456 00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:08,760 of course for the girl who tells the 457 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:10,830 story for her there's there's no 458 00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:13,290 escaping the the correlation between the 459 00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:15,360 flying saucer sitting there on the grass 460 00:23:22,220 --> 00:23:17,700 in front of the two girls and the effect 461 00:23:25,910 --> 00:23:22,230 on them there is another witness a an 462 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:25,920 older girl a formed two girl who tells 463 00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,810 the story of also being out on the 464 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:29,280 playing field at the time playing 465 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:32,490 cricket and saw the flying saucer when 466 00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:35,610 it appeared and a younger student who 467 00:23:40,790 --> 00:23:37,200 was in one of the other classes on the 468 00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:40,800 sports ground went racing down towards 469 00:23:44,690 --> 00:23:42,480 the Grange in search of the flying 470 00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:44,700 saucer and she chased after her even 471 00:23:49,010 --> 00:23:46,350 though they were a year apart in 472 00:23:52,220 --> 00:23:49,020 different forms they were friends and 473 00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,230 the older girl his name is Jacqueline 474 00:23:58,430 --> 00:23:54,720 she raced down after her friend whose 475 00:24:00,680 --> 00:23:58,440 name was Tonya and Tonya was was a much 476 00:24:03,380 --> 00:24:00,690 faster girl and got down to the Grange 477 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:03,390 before Jacqueline and about halfway down 478 00:24:08,660 --> 00:24:06,690 to the Grange Jacqueline finds Tania 479 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:08,670 racing back again in the other direction 480 00:24:11,370 --> 00:24:09,490 back 481 00:24:14,750 --> 00:24:11,380 Ward's the school and by this point 482 00:24:18,990 --> 00:24:14,760 tanya is absolutely hysterical crying 483 00:24:21,090 --> 00:24:19,000 yelling out weeping and Jacqueline grabs 484 00:24:23,340 --> 00:24:21,100 her and tries to calm her down and tries 485 00:24:25,850 --> 00:24:23,350 to work out what on earth is going on 486 00:24:28,140 --> 00:24:25,860 why you so upset what did you say 487 00:24:30,750 --> 00:24:28,150 Tania won't tell her and breaks away 488 00:24:33,390 --> 00:24:30,760 from her embrace and keeps running back 489 00:24:36,060 --> 00:24:33,400 towards the school at this point 490 00:24:38,250 --> 00:24:36,070 Jacqueline makes the decision not to go 491 00:24:40,620 --> 00:24:38,260 any further and she turns around and 492 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:40,630 goes back to school as well she gets 493 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:43,210 back to school in time to see Tania 494 00:24:50,790 --> 00:24:47,650 being embraced by a teacher and taken 495 00:24:54,540 --> 00:24:50,800 into the teachers care into the school 496 00:24:57,030 --> 00:24:54,550 and some time later Jacqueline witnesses 497 00:25:00,720 --> 00:24:57,040 an ambulance coming to the school her 498 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:00,730 friend Tanya been taken into the 499 00:25:07,169 --> 00:25:03,210 ambulance and then being taken away to 500 00:25:09,630 --> 00:25:07,179 hospital and that was literally the last 501 00:25:14,669 --> 00:25:09,640 time that Jacqueline saw her friend 502 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:14,679 Tanya and the story that several 503 00:25:21,330 --> 00:25:18,970 students had been affected adversely by 504 00:25:23,490 --> 00:25:21,340 what they had seen whether they were 505 00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:23,500 students on the sports ground or down at 506 00:25:28,650 --> 00:25:26,110 the Grange was a story that was told to 507 00:25:31,290 --> 00:25:28,660 me by many many witnesses very early on 508 00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,300 in my research some of the witnesses 509 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:33,520 could remember the names of those girls 510 00:25:40,940 --> 00:25:37,510 in fact I was given two names in 511 00:25:45,660 --> 00:25:40,950 addition to the student called Tanya and 512 00:25:49,049 --> 00:25:45,670 I have tried very hard to find those 513 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:49,059 students one of the students I was able 514 00:25:56,940 --> 00:25:53,770 to track down but unfortunately because 515 00:25:58,830 --> 00:25:56,950 as a teenager she had been given for 516 00:26:01,250 --> 00:25:58,840 whatever reason and I don't know the 517 00:26:05,070 --> 00:26:01,260 reasons 518 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:05,080 electroconvulsive therapy ECT therapy 519 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:08,490 Wow as a teenager at around that time 520 00:26:15,030 --> 00:26:11,650 she told me we spoke on the telephone 521 00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:15,040 she told me certainly I was at Westall 522 00:26:20,490 --> 00:26:17,320 high school I have vague memories of 523 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:20,500 there being a flying saucer incident but 524 00:26:26,250 --> 00:26:23,170 because I received this therapy at a 525 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:26,260 that IH rage was about 15 she literally 526 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:28,890 has next to no memories of anything 527 00:26:34,980 --> 00:26:33,010 before the age of 15 and so that was an 528 00:26:36,990 --> 00:26:34,990 interesting addition to the story 529 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:37,000 whether there's any connection with this 530 00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:39,610 particular incident of course I just 531 00:26:44,970 --> 00:26:42,910 can't tell but that theme within this 532 00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:44,980 story that there were students who were 533 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:49,030 affected in an adverse way is a theme 534 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:50,890 that has been there from the beginning 535 00:26:56,610 --> 00:26:53,890 certainly that wasn't the case for all 536 00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:56,620 the students not even for a majority of 537 00:27:01,140 --> 00:26:58,210 the students but it does seem to have 538 00:27:03,180 --> 00:27:01,150 been an experience for some of the 539 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:03,190 students mm-hmm now wasn't there a 540 00:27:09,870 --> 00:27:06,930 farmer that also saw something as well 541 00:27:12,330 --> 00:27:09,880 that's right so Westall in those days 542 00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:12,340 was at the very south eastern fringe of 543 00:27:18,090 --> 00:27:16,000 melbourne suburban sprawl so there were 544 00:27:20,460 --> 00:27:18,100 suburban houses on one side off the 545 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:20,470 suburb and if you like on the other side 546 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:23,610 there were still lots of market gardens 547 00:27:28,830 --> 00:27:26,890 farms the area was just beginning to 548 00:27:32,130 --> 00:27:28,840 become a little bit more industrialized 549 00:27:34,860 --> 00:27:32,140 and so abutting quite literally right up 550 00:27:36,930 --> 00:27:34,870 to the boundaries of the schools were 551 00:27:38,610 --> 00:27:36,940 these market gardens where vegetables 552 00:27:41,580 --> 00:27:38,620 were being grown there were some 553 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:41,590 orchards as well and one of the 554 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:45,610 witnesses was a 16 year old farmhand if 555 00:27:49,740 --> 00:27:47,410 you like he'd been a student at Westall 556 00:27:53,850 --> 00:27:49,750 high school up until the previous year 557 00:27:56,550 --> 00:27:53,860 he'd left and he was now working on the 558 00:27:59,490 --> 00:27:56,560 market garden of one of his neighbors 559 00:28:02,880 --> 00:27:59,500 who lived also there in Westall and he 560 00:28:06,770 --> 00:28:02,890 was down there with his boss and another 561 00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:06,780 farmhand and they were pulling 562 00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:09,070 vegetables carrots out of the ground and 563 00:28:13,290 --> 00:28:10,960 throwing them onto the truck getting 564 00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:13,300 them ready for market and he happened to 565 00:28:18,270 --> 00:28:15,600 look up and he saw this extraordinary 566 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:18,280 object come floating through the sky 567 00:28:23,790 --> 00:28:21,370 from the direction of the schools down 568 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:23,800 towards the Grange any head of you of 569 00:28:32,750 --> 00:28:29,050 the pine trees at the Grange and the 570 00:28:34,909 --> 00:28:32,760 object was flying very low it was flying 571 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:34,919 silently 572 00:28:41,629 --> 00:28:38,730 and from the moment he first saw it when 573 00:28:43,549 --> 00:28:41,639 it seemed to be quite a solid object he 574 00:28:47,450 --> 00:28:43,559 had no doubt about that it began to 575 00:28:52,369 --> 00:28:47,460 change into a more translucent object it 576 00:28:54,499 --> 00:28:52,379 it actually started to lose color it 577 00:28:57,619 --> 00:28:54,509 started to lose it looked as I was 578 00:29:00,739 --> 00:28:57,629 losing mass to him he could actually 579 00:29:02,570 --> 00:29:00,749 begin to see through the object and and 580 00:29:04,940 --> 00:29:02,580 this was an extraordinary thing of 581 00:29:06,649 --> 00:29:04,950 course for him to witness and it was 582 00:29:10,249 --> 00:29:06,659 very difficult for him to make sense of 583 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:10,259 it and he kept watching and it flew down 584 00:29:16,999 --> 00:29:12,690 to the grove of pine trees at the Grange 585 00:29:19,159 --> 00:29:17,009 and he expected a collision but what 586 00:29:23,479 --> 00:29:19,169 happened was something extraordinary it 587 00:29:26,450 --> 00:29:23,489 flew into the pine trees but it was 588 00:29:29,090 --> 00:29:26,460 absorbed by the pine trees he literally 589 00:29:32,210 --> 00:29:29,100 or he watched the object as it literally 590 00:29:37,070 --> 00:29:32,220 went into the center of the trees and 591 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:37,080 then disappeared it vanished before his 592 00:29:42,430 --> 00:29:39,210 eyes it didn't come out the other side 593 00:29:47,060 --> 00:29:42,440 and he remembers thinking at the time 594 00:29:50,629 --> 00:29:47,070 that it was as if somebody was shining a 595 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:50,639 huge light projection up into the sky 596 00:29:57,070 --> 00:29:53,570 that this was being somehow projected 597 00:30:01,549 --> 00:29:57,080 into the air into the sky onto the trees 598 00:30:03,649 --> 00:30:01,559 that was the closest he could it was the 599 00:30:06,940 --> 00:30:03,659 closest thing he could imagine it to be 600 00:30:09,049 --> 00:30:06,950 took to resemble now cuz this was 601 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:09,059 virtually the middle of the day 602 00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:12,210 it was a bright sunny day an autumn day 603 00:30:19,340 --> 00:30:15,600 a called a but but a blue sky sunny day 604 00:30:21,919 --> 00:30:19,350 and it was something a memory of course 605 00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:21,929 which stayed with him and stayed with 606 00:30:28,039 --> 00:30:25,710 him all of these years and then after he 607 00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:28,049 and his two companions saw this happen 608 00:30:33,950 --> 00:30:31,440 within a few minutes this huge swarm of 609 00:30:37,549 --> 00:30:33,960 kids from Westall high school came 610 00:30:41,629 --> 00:30:37,559 rushing over into the Grange he watched 611 00:30:44,419 --> 00:30:41,639 them they saw three people in the market 612 00:30:46,159 --> 00:30:44,429 garden including himself they paused as 613 00:30:48,019 --> 00:30:46,169 if they were thinking well this is 614 00:30:48,330 --> 00:30:48,029 private land we're not supposed to be 615 00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:48,340 here 616 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:53,049 but they kept running and they kept 617 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:55,330 coming into the grains and of course 618 00:31:00,990 --> 00:30:57,250 they were looking to see where the 619 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:01,000 object had gone well you know this thing 620 00:31:05,690 --> 00:31:02,890 you said earlier about it like blinking 621 00:31:08,279 --> 00:31:05,700 and reappearing type of thing and then 622 00:31:13,049 --> 00:31:08,289 almost like a projection onto the pines 623 00:31:15,870 --> 00:31:13,059 that it it brings up the thought of the 624 00:31:17,399 --> 00:31:15,880 the question that people have talked 625 00:31:20,669 --> 00:31:17,409 about whether these things could 626 00:31:23,580 --> 00:31:20,679 possibly be interdimensional or or what 627 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:23,590 you know just adds to the mystery in 628 00:31:28,409 --> 00:31:26,770 general it does absolutely add to the 629 00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:28,419 mystery and and of course as I keep 630 00:31:32,820 --> 00:31:29,710 saying to people I've done a lot of 631 00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:32,830 interviews about this over the last few 632 00:31:39,450 --> 00:31:34,480 years and and have written some articles 633 00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:39,460 and I often emphasize to people that I 634 00:31:42,810 --> 00:31:41,919 keep referring to this as a flying 635 00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:42,820 saucer 636 00:31:47,850 --> 00:31:44,559 incident and the reason I do that is 637 00:31:50,130 --> 00:31:47,860 because that's how it was referred to at 638 00:31:53,630 --> 00:31:50,140 the time using the parlance of the time 639 00:31:56,639 --> 00:31:53,640 and and using that almost almost 640 00:31:58,560 --> 00:31:56,649 outdated antiquated term sort of 641 00:32:01,620 --> 00:31:58,570 captures the the feeling of that era 642 00:32:05,010 --> 00:32:01,630 which is is something I'm keen to do 643 00:32:08,220 --> 00:32:05,020 mm-hmm but when we say it was a flying 644 00:32:10,860 --> 00:32:08,230 saucer we say that because that's how it 645 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:10,870 was described it doesn't mean and I'm 646 00:32:16,529 --> 00:32:12,730 not intending it to mean that it was an 647 00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:16,539 extraterrestrial craft I'm not intending 648 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:19,360 to imply that it was something from 649 00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:21,610 another dimension or something from 650 00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:25,960 another time I'm simply saying it was 651 00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,960 shaped in such a way it was rightly and 652 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:31,120 very aptly described by the witnesses as 653 00:32:36,289 --> 00:32:34,330 a flying saucer obviously in the literal 654 00:32:40,980 --> 00:32:36,299 sense of the term very much an 655 00:32:44,460 --> 00:32:40,990 unidentified flying object but as to the 656 00:32:46,889 --> 00:32:44,470 provenance of the object and where it 657 00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:46,899 came from and and who was behind it this 658 00:32:51,870 --> 00:32:50,080 is the enduring mystery and it's 659 00:32:55,260 --> 00:32:51,880 something that I'm still researching 660 00:32:59,250 --> 00:32:55,270 it's something that I'm still very much 661 00:33:01,529 --> 00:32:59,260 open to a range of explanations and of 662 00:33:02,940 --> 00:33:01,539 course after you have and 663 00:33:06,210 --> 00:33:02,950 this is something I've done from the 664 00:33:09,989 --> 00:33:06,220 very beginning try to rule out all of 665 00:33:12,090 --> 00:33:09,999 the prosaic explanations explanations 666 00:33:15,659 --> 00:33:12,100 such as it being an aeroplane or a 667 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:15,669 helicopter or a meteorological balloon 668 00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:18,850 or a model aircraft of some sort or a 669 00:33:28,499 --> 00:33:24,070 kite or a drogue being towed by an 670 00:33:29,729 --> 00:33:28,509 aeroplane or some sort of drone or after 671 00:33:32,849 --> 00:33:29,739 you've ruled out all of those more 672 00:33:35,219 --> 00:33:32,859 prosaic explanations you're left with an 673 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:35,229 enduring mystery and I think it's fair 674 00:33:39,019 --> 00:33:37,090 enough to start thinking about some of 675 00:33:41,399 --> 00:33:39,029 those other explanations of course 676 00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:41,409 obviously people when they hear the term 677 00:33:47,369 --> 00:33:44,799 UFO or flying saucer within general 678 00:33:49,499 --> 00:33:47,379 society within our popular culture it 679 00:33:52,049 --> 00:33:49,509 connotes quite literally in most 680 00:33:55,229 --> 00:33:52,059 people's mind something extraterrestrial 681 00:33:58,169 --> 00:33:55,239 and maybe maybe that's the correct 682 00:34:00,719 --> 00:33:58,179 explanation in this case I'm not at that 683 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:00,729 point in saying that yet I I don't know 684 00:34:06,119 --> 00:34:04,090 that anybody quite is but it's certainly 685 00:34:09,299 --> 00:34:06,129 interesting to contemplate the 686 00:34:11,010 --> 00:34:09,309 possibilities absolutely one of the 687 00:34:13,379 --> 00:34:11,020 things that I thought was really 688 00:34:15,619 --> 00:34:13,389 intriguing is I remember hearing that 689 00:34:19,770 --> 00:34:15,629 one of the teachers a female teacher 690 00:34:21,930 --> 00:34:19,780 took several pictures and afterwards I 691 00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:21,940 want to talk about the aftermath because 692 00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:25,510 I guess police or someone came to the 693 00:34:30,089 --> 00:34:27,609 school afterwards but she was actually 694 00:34:32,220 --> 00:34:30,099 told to remove her film is that was that 695 00:34:34,859 --> 00:34:32,230 a myth or did that really happen 696 00:34:36,180 --> 00:34:34,869 that's a good question lots and a lot of 697 00:34:38,669 --> 00:34:36,190 these stories that you're alluding to of 698 00:34:40,829 --> 00:34:38,679 course feature in the documentary that 699 00:34:43,829 --> 00:34:40,839 that I know you are familiar with the 700 00:34:46,649 --> 00:34:43,839 documentary entitled West or 66 a 701 00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:46,659 suburban UFO mystery which I was very 702 00:34:51,359 --> 00:34:48,730 much a part of and which was broadcast 703 00:34:53,970 --> 00:34:51,369 on television here in Australia in 2010 704 00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:53,980 and one of the stories in that of course 705 00:35:01,890 --> 00:34:58,720 is this memory that that a lot of the 706 00:35:04,170 --> 00:35:01,900 students had of their being our teacher 707 00:35:07,049 --> 00:35:04,180 some of them identified the teacher as 708 00:35:09,809 --> 00:35:07,059 being the female science teacher a lady 709 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:09,819 called mrs. Robbins other people 710 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:11,770 remembered it as being the male science 711 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:15,130 teacher mr. Greenwood but the story was 712 00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:17,650 that there was a camera it was a school 713 00:35:23,759 --> 00:35:20,710 camera probably and that one of those 714 00:35:26,339 --> 00:35:23,769 teachers had taken photographs somehow 715 00:35:27,839 --> 00:35:26,349 very quickly had managed to grab the 716 00:35:30,329 --> 00:35:27,849 camera and took photographs of the 717 00:35:33,749 --> 00:35:30,339 object as it was still in the sky above 718 00:35:37,620 --> 00:35:33,759 the schools and that that camera was 719 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:37,630 confiscated by people who came to the 720 00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:40,930 school now some people literally 721 00:35:48,059 --> 00:35:43,980 remember being there standing there and 722 00:35:51,390 --> 00:35:48,069 watching as these two uniformed officers 723 00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:51,400 came and took the camera with the film 724 00:35:57,359 --> 00:35:55,119 still inside out of the hands of one of 725 00:36:00,089 --> 00:35:57,369 these teachers some of the witnesses 726 00:36:02,279 --> 00:36:00,099 remember it being two people in dark 727 00:36:04,529 --> 00:36:02,289 suits not so much a uniform but 728 00:36:09,180 --> 00:36:04,539 something like dark suits that either 729 00:36:10,829 --> 00:36:09,190 way two people supposedly agents of the 730 00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:10,839 government in some respect whether air 731 00:36:16,289 --> 00:36:13,089 force officers or police officers or 732 00:36:17,999 --> 00:36:16,299 from some other agency people who of 733 00:36:19,950 --> 00:36:18,009 course didn't belong at the school 734 00:36:23,009 --> 00:36:19,960 weren't part of the school community had 735 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:23,019 never been at the school before coming 736 00:36:30,569 --> 00:36:28,690 and taking this camera away now we've 737 00:36:34,490 --> 00:36:30,579 spoken to mr. Greenwood about this 738 00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:34,500 memory he doesn't think it was him 739 00:36:40,049 --> 00:36:36,640 unfortunately in relation to mrs. 740 00:36:42,779 --> 00:36:40,059 Robbins her health is now so poor we're 741 00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:42,789 not able to talk to her about these 742 00:36:49,380 --> 00:36:46,079 things in detail and so we don't know 743 00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:49,390 really in any detail her side of the 744 00:36:54,329 --> 00:36:52,390 story in relation to this so it's 745 00:36:58,740 --> 00:36:54,339 another element of the story that sits 746 00:37:01,170 --> 00:36:58,750 there as a memory that's very much part 747 00:37:04,140 --> 00:37:01,180 of the recollection of many of the 748 00:37:06,210 --> 00:37:04,150 witnesses but one that's very difficult 749 00:37:08,970 --> 00:37:06,220 of course to prove one way or the other 750 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:08,980 certainly and very frustratingly those 751 00:37:14,970 --> 00:37:10,930 photographs whatever became of them had 752 00:37:18,779 --> 00:37:14,980 never surfaced mm-hmm in your best 753 00:37:21,029 --> 00:37:18,789 estimate how many witnesses do you think 754 00:37:23,309 --> 00:37:21,039 there were that day and how many of 755 00:37:26,039 --> 00:37:23,319 those witnesses were actually teachers I 756 00:37:27,450 --> 00:37:26,049 mentioned mr. Greenwood remembering a 757 00:37:28,859 --> 00:37:27,460 year later when he was being interviewed 758 00:37:32,999 --> 00:37:28,869 by dr. James and 759 00:37:34,620 --> 00:37:33,009 that there were around 585 students at 760 00:37:36,809 --> 00:37:34,630 the high school 761 00:37:39,390 --> 00:37:36,819 not counting the primary school next 762 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:39,400 door and at about three-quarters of them 763 00:37:43,319 --> 00:37:40,930 were out on the playing field at some 764 00:37:48,180 --> 00:37:43,329 point watching this flying saucer in the 765 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:48,190 sky so we're dealing with the number and 766 00:37:53,220 --> 00:37:50,249 somewhere in the vicinity probably of 767 00:37:54,809 --> 00:37:53,230 three to four hundred because you do 768 00:37:58,319 --> 00:37:54,819 have to take into consideration the 769 00:38:00,210 --> 00:37:58,329 primary school students next door and a 770 00:38:03,390 --> 00:38:00,220 number of those were witnesses as well 771 00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:03,400 as well as of course some of the local 772 00:38:10,499 --> 00:38:05,920 residents and workers in terms of the 773 00:38:13,319 --> 00:38:10,509 teachers we're not aware are not aware 774 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:13,329 of any primary witnesses amongst the 775 00:38:18,509 --> 00:38:15,970 teachers at the primary school although 776 00:38:20,309 --> 00:38:18,519 there may have been certainly there are 777 00:38:23,069 --> 00:38:20,319 some secondary witnesses amongst the 778 00:38:26,370 --> 00:38:23,079 primary school teachers but at the high 779 00:38:27,930 --> 00:38:26,380 school mr. Greenwood said obviously he 780 00:38:29,789 --> 00:38:27,940 was certainly a witness himself and he 781 00:38:32,910 --> 00:38:29,799 gave an account of what he had seen to 782 00:38:36,180 --> 00:38:32,920 the local newspaper at the time and he 783 00:38:39,569 --> 00:38:36,190 also thinks one possibly two other 784 00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:39,579 teachers were witnesses and he names 785 00:38:45,509 --> 00:38:42,160 those teachers in the interview that he 786 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:45,519 gave with James McDonald one of the 787 00:38:51,420 --> 00:38:48,249 teachers was a lady called Jeannette 788 00:38:54,989 --> 00:38:51,430 Muir and she was a teacher from New 789 00:38:58,220 --> 00:38:54,999 Zealand and she was one of the teachers 790 00:39:00,930 --> 00:38:58,230 out on the sports ground at the time and 791 00:39:03,479 --> 00:39:00,940 Andrew Greenwood said she had been a 792 00:39:05,489 --> 00:39:03,489 witness but that she clammed up about 793 00:39:10,769 --> 00:39:05,499 what she had seen very quickly and 794 00:39:13,739 --> 00:39:10,779 wouldn't talk more about her and I tried 795 00:39:17,009 --> 00:39:13,749 very hard rosie Jones the director for 796 00:39:20,819 --> 00:39:17,019 the documentary West all 66 also tried 797 00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:20,829 very hard to track this lady down we did 798 00:39:25,890 --> 00:39:23,710 manage to track her husband down but 799 00:39:28,739 --> 00:39:25,900 unfortunately she passed away just two 800 00:39:33,390 --> 00:39:28,749 years before and so we weren't able to 801 00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:33,400 talk to her about her so we're left with 802 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:38,380 one surviving teacher that we know was a 803 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:41,370 primary witness and his account 804 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:44,370 he has given to us on several occasions 805 00:39:48,890 --> 00:39:46,770 and mr. Greenwood although he doesn't 806 00:39:50,330 --> 00:39:48,900 like to talk about the case much anymore 807 00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:50,340 I guess for him it's a matter of it 808 00:39:54,110 --> 00:39:52,560 being something he's had to live with 809 00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:54,120 for a very long time now and he's a 810 00:39:59,900 --> 00:39:57,690 little bit over it I guess he was happy 811 00:40:02,300 --> 00:39:59,910 to talk to me on a couple of occasions 812 00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:02,310 over the phone and we also correspond it 813 00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:06,240 by email and he said to me that he he 814 00:40:11,210 --> 00:40:07,920 stands by the account that he gave at 815 00:40:13,850 --> 00:40:11,220 the time he thinks that the best account 816 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:13,860 that he can probably hear but he did 817 00:40:18,110 --> 00:40:16,050 elaborate on one thing and this was 818 00:40:22,220 --> 00:40:18,120 something which wasn't known at the time 819 00:40:25,130 --> 00:40:22,230 and that was about a week after the 820 00:40:27,950 --> 00:40:25,140 sighting he was at home and he heard a 821 00:40:28,130 --> 00:40:27,960 knock on the door and he answered the 822 00:40:30,740 --> 00:40:28,140 door 823 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:30,750 and there were two Royal Australian Air 824 00:40:35,930 --> 00:40:32,850 Force officers there on his doorstep and 825 00:40:38,330 --> 00:40:35,940 his first reaction was they're coming 826 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:38,340 around to take down more details of what 827 00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:41,370 it was that I saw by that stage his 828 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:43,200 account had appeared in the local 829 00:40:49,850 --> 00:40:47,130 newspaper but in fact they were coming 830 00:40:51,890 --> 00:40:49,860 around to do quite the opposite they had 831 00:40:55,130 --> 00:40:51,900 come around to put the hard word on him 832 00:40:56,930 --> 00:40:55,140 and they said to him that if he spoke 833 00:40:59,870 --> 00:40:56,940 again in public about what he had seen 834 00:41:03,260 --> 00:40:59,880 at Westall that he wouldn't teach again 835 00:41:05,270 --> 00:41:03,270 in the state of Victoria he was a a new 836 00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:05,280 teacher it was in fact his first year of 837 00:41:11,300 --> 00:41:08,160 teaching he'd graduated just the year 838 00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:11,310 before and they said if you give another 839 00:41:15,890 --> 00:41:13,710 account to a newspaper or any other 840 00:41:17,930 --> 00:41:15,900 media outlet we will let people know 841 00:41:19,610 --> 00:41:17,940 that you're not coping with your 842 00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:19,620 teaching load that you're beginning to 843 00:41:23,330 --> 00:41:21,390 take alcohol in the morning with your 844 00:41:25,850 --> 00:41:23,340 breakfast just so that you can get 845 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:25,860 through the day there are no such things 846 00:41:32,180 --> 00:41:28,050 as flying sources and we don't want you 847 00:41:32,810 --> 00:41:32,190 to say that there are and he said to me 848 00:41:35,570 --> 00:41:32,820 Shane 849 00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:35,580 even as clear as the memory of seeing 850 00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:38,280 this flying saucer is for me even after 851 00:41:44,540 --> 00:41:41,280 all these years the memory of these two 852 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:44,550 Air Force officers goons he referred to 853 00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:48,570 them as coming around and trying to 854 00:41:52,940 --> 00:41:51,420 threaten him and and saying ridiculous 855 00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:52,950 things he could remember even at the 856 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:53,760 time 857 00:41:58,460 --> 00:41:56,130 some of the things were so ridiculous in 858 00:42:00,830 --> 00:41:58,470 terms of they were saying there are no 859 00:42:02,660 --> 00:42:00,840 such things as flying saucers and then 860 00:42:05,330 --> 00:42:02,670 he said to them well if there are no 861 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:05,340 such things as flying horses what does 862 00:42:10,300 --> 00:42:07,650 it matter to you if I say I've seen 863 00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:10,310 something gent like good point 864 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:14,250 and so that memory of being intimidated 865 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:19,290 of these two men trying to both put the 866 00:42:23,870 --> 00:42:21,210 hard word on him and pulled the wool 867 00:42:26,510 --> 00:42:23,880 over his eyes was extremely vivid 868 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:26,520 extremely vivid indeed in' and it was 869 00:42:30,590 --> 00:42:28,530 something which at the time made him 870 00:42:32,690 --> 00:42:30,600 very angry and i could hear that the 871 00:42:36,380 --> 00:42:32,700 anger in his voice still even after all 872 00:42:39,410 --> 00:42:36,390 of these years Wow now has anyone else 873 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:39,420 given a similar account of anyone 874 00:42:46,730 --> 00:42:41,130 approaching them in the same type of way 875 00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:46,740 well in terms of being visited by if you 876 00:42:51,710 --> 00:42:49,440 like agents of the government there are 877 00:42:56,180 --> 00:42:51,720 a couple of other interesting accounts 878 00:43:00,140 --> 00:42:56,190 and they both pertain to Westall high 879 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:00,150 school students one again was that girl 880 00:43:05,060 --> 00:43:02,370 called Jacqueline that I referred to 881 00:43:07,340 --> 00:43:05,070 earlier who had tried to race down to 882 00:43:09,020 --> 00:43:07,350 the Grange with her friend Tania than 883 00:43:13,570 --> 00:43:09,030 both having seen the flying saucer in 884 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:13,580 the sky and she was actually called up 885 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:18,570 to the Headmaster's office and she went 886 00:43:22,370 --> 00:43:20,130 down to the Headmaster's office and was 887 00:43:24,740 --> 00:43:22,380 shown in and the headmaster was there 888 00:43:25,730 --> 00:43:24,750 but there were also two men that she'd 889 00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:25,740 never seen before 890 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:30,720 two men in dark suits not in uniform she 891 00:43:36,580 --> 00:43:33,570 doesn't remember any insignia or any 892 00:43:41,050 --> 00:43:36,590 markings on their clothes they had short 893 00:43:43,940 --> 00:43:41,060 cropped hair styles and one of the men 894 00:43:46,730 --> 00:43:43,950 never spoke to her the other man did all 895 00:43:51,650 --> 00:43:46,740 of the talking and it wasn't so much 896 00:43:53,690 --> 00:43:51,660 talking as as grilling the the man was 897 00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:53,700 saying things to her like and I suppose 898 00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:56,400 you think you've seen a flying saucer 899 00:44:00,770 --> 00:43:58,800 and I suppose you think you've seen 900 00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:00,780 little green men and 901 00:44:06,290 --> 00:44:04,260 and we don't want you talking about this 902 00:44:09,350 --> 00:44:06,300 outside of the school there are no such 903 00:44:10,670 --> 00:44:09,360 things as flying saucers and it's not 904 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:10,680 going to be good for you 905 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:13,890 if you try to talk about this outside of 906 00:44:18,770 --> 00:44:16,170 the school you not you're not to talk 907 00:44:22,070 --> 00:44:18,780 about this and she found this experience 908 00:44:29,620 --> 00:44:22,080 she was all of 14 years old at the time 909 00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:29,630 she found it very intimidating very very 910 00:44:34,730 --> 00:44:32,700 threatening very frightening the 911 00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:34,740 headmaster was in the room that didn't 912 00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:37,200 intervene and that for her was one of 913 00:44:43,310 --> 00:44:40,640 the one of the elements that was most 914 00:44:46,700 --> 00:44:43,320 frustrating and most agonizing for her 915 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:46,710 that her own headmaster wasn't there to 916 00:44:52,820 --> 00:44:49,770 protect her or intervene on her behalf 917 00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:52,830 and she remembers she was so upset by 918 00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:55,200 the grilling and the nature of the 919 00:45:01,670 --> 00:44:58,560 conversation that she burst into tears 920 00:45:04,910 --> 00:45:01,680 and she ran out of the Headmaster's 921 00:45:07,660 --> 00:45:04,920 office and ran all the way home she was 922 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:07,670 so upset about this well this girl 923 00:45:13,070 --> 00:45:09,930 Jacqueline of course grow up to become a 924 00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:13,080 woman and she became a psychologist and 925 00:45:19,610 --> 00:45:16,110 an adviser to a state government 926 00:45:21,170 --> 00:45:19,620 minister and so she's a very 927 00:45:25,310 --> 00:45:21,180 level-headed person a very well-educated 928 00:45:28,490 --> 00:45:25,320 person and for many years she couldn't 929 00:45:31,820 --> 00:45:28,500 tell this story partly because she'd 930 00:45:33,770 --> 00:45:31,830 been told not to tell the story but now 931 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:33,780 she's she feels very free to tell the 932 00:45:38,510 --> 00:45:36,090 story and she wants the story to be to 933 00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:38,520 be better known and and after all these 934 00:45:43,970 --> 00:45:41,040 years she thinks back on who those men 935 00:45:48,290 --> 00:45:43,980 might have been and she thinks they were 936 00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:48,300 probably intelligence officers of some 937 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:50,760 sort perhaps from the Australian 938 00:45:57,950 --> 00:45:54,090 domestic intelligence agency known as 939 00:45:59,420 --> 00:45:57,960 azo the Australian security a big part 940 00:46:02,660 --> 00:45:59,430 of Australian secret intelligence 941 00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:02,670 organization or some other organization 942 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:05,520 like that it's something like you always 943 00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:07,290 hear the men in black you know showing 944 00:46:11,590 --> 00:46:09,510 up and it doesn't matter what part of 945 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:11,600 the world it seems like these things 946 00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:13,810 seem to happen after 947 00:46:18,210 --> 00:46:16,270 and now I was thinking about all these 948 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:18,220 witnesses we were talking about earlier 949 00:46:23,450 --> 00:46:19,690 you know three to four hundred witnesses 950 00:46:27,570 --> 00:46:23,460 now they all went home to families of 951 00:46:29,130 --> 00:46:27,580 say each you know connect to so many and 952 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:29,140 you get up into the thousands of people 953 00:46:35,100 --> 00:46:32,770 that are all you know having table 954 00:46:37,590 --> 00:46:35,110 conversations at dinner about this whole 955 00:46:40,020 --> 00:46:37,600 thing what happened as far as the 956 00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:40,030 aftermath and the media as far as this 957 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:42,310 thing going public that's a really good 958 00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:44,050 question mark because in terms of the 959 00:46:49,140 --> 00:46:46,560 media it's a it was really a mixed bag 960 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:49,150 fortunately the local newspaper at the 961 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:51,330 time a newspaper called the Dandenong 962 00:46:57,630 --> 00:46:54,850 Journal and it was a very well read 963 00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:57,640 newspaper was almost the the must read 964 00:47:03,450 --> 00:47:00,160 newspaper for that local area at that 965 00:47:05,910 --> 00:47:03,460 time it heard about the story very 966 00:47:09,510 --> 00:47:05,920 quickly it sent a reporter down that 967 00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:09,520 very day and it was front-page news 968 00:47:14,700 --> 00:47:12,400 for that local newspaper for two weeks 969 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:14,710 running and they tried very hard to 970 00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:19,690 follow up the story they tried to talk 971 00:47:24,890 --> 00:47:22,240 to the headmaster about it they made 972 00:47:29,130 --> 00:47:24,900 phone calls to the Victorian Department 973 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:29,140 of Education they tried various 974 00:47:35,580 --> 00:47:32,770 different avenues to try to get out of 975 00:47:37,260 --> 00:47:35,590 somebody some information about what on 976 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:37,270 earth had gone on and caused this 977 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:40,810 enormous reaction which happened amongst 978 00:47:46,650 --> 00:47:42,490 all of the students and some of the 979 00:47:49,620 --> 00:47:46,660 staff at the schools in terms of the 980 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:49,630 estate based newspapers the Melbourne 981 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:52,810 newspapers interestingly the two tabloid 982 00:47:57,500 --> 00:47:55,330 newspapers in Melbourne at the time the 983 00:48:01,610 --> 00:47:57,510 Sun newspaper and the Herald newspaper 984 00:48:04,980 --> 00:48:01,620 didn't pick up the story at all and 985 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:04,990 interestingly in addition to that they 986 00:48:13,310 --> 00:48:08,890 both won the very next day and one the 987 00:48:17,310 --> 00:48:13,320 following Saturday ran cartoons that 988 00:48:20,910 --> 00:48:17,320 made fun of the notion of flying saucers 989 00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:20,920 Wow a very interesting response given 990 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:23,440 that these were tabloid newspapers there 991 00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:25,570 generally were the sort of newspapers 992 00:48:31,020 --> 00:48:28,000 that would run flying saucer and 993 00:48:35,070 --> 00:48:31,030 Oh stories and of course this was the 994 00:48:39,780 --> 00:48:35,080 the middle of the 1960s it was almost 995 00:48:42,210 --> 00:48:39,790 part of a not quite a flap but there 996 00:48:45,930 --> 00:48:42,220 were a lot of flying saucer UFO stories 997 00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:45,940 happening around Australia at the time 998 00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:49,270 including in Victoria so it was a story 999 00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:51,520 a type of story that you would expect 1000 00:48:57,210 --> 00:48:54,250 tabloid newspapers to at least say 1001 00:48:59,790 --> 00:48:57,220 something about and yet they didn't Wow 1002 00:49:02,310 --> 00:48:59,800 the one the one broadsheet newspaper in 1003 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:02,320 Melbourne the Melbourne age were in a 1004 00:49:08,070 --> 00:49:04,810 small article the next day documenting 1005 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:08,080 the fact that a flying saucer had been 1006 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:09,970 seen apparently by several hundred 1007 00:49:15,930 --> 00:49:13,330 students at the schools in Westall by 1008 00:49:19,410 --> 00:49:15,940 both students and teachers and it 1009 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:19,420 posited the possibility that what they 1010 00:49:24,690 --> 00:49:22,050 had seen was in fact a weather balloon 1011 00:49:31,410 --> 00:49:24,700 because of weather balloon had been set 1012 00:49:32,910 --> 00:49:31,420 off in Melbourne that day so again that 1013 00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:32,920 was an interesting take on the story 1014 00:49:38,820 --> 00:49:35,680 because the fact that a meteorological 1015 00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:38,830 balloon had been set off that day was 1016 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:42,730 nothing at all extraordinary because 1017 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:45,130 meteorological balloons were set off at 1018 00:49:51,210 --> 00:49:48,610 two airfields in Melbourne every day 1019 00:49:54,450 --> 00:49:51,220 several times a day and had been for 1020 00:49:58,550 --> 00:49:54,460 years and years beforehand and have of 1021 00:50:02,250 --> 00:49:58,560 course every day every year since and 1022 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:02,260 not once in those preceding years or any 1023 00:50:07,380 --> 00:50:05,290 following years has anything ever 1024 00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:07,390 happened at a school in or around 1025 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:10,480 Melbourne that comes anywhere near what 1026 00:50:16,170 --> 00:50:12,370 happened at these two schools in Westall 1027 00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:16,180 on that day so again another angle 1028 00:50:20,220 --> 00:50:17,920 another interesting angle that was 1029 00:50:22,530 --> 00:50:20,230 adopted by that broadsheet newspaper 1030 00:50:24,210 --> 00:50:22,540 that's that's amazing but there was 1031 00:50:26,580 --> 00:50:24,220 television coverage as well Martin I 1032 00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:26,590 should mention TV I shouldn't forget TV 1033 00:50:32,850 --> 00:50:30,880 because a lot of the witnesses when I 1034 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:32,860 first approached the witnesses and this 1035 00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:35,890 is something I started back in 2005 and 1036 00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:38,800 I started very slowly I would contact 1037 00:50:41,380 --> 00:50:40,510 one witness and that would lead to 1038 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:41,390 another couple of 1039 00:50:45,970 --> 00:50:43,130 contacts and that would lead to another 1040 00:50:48,610 --> 00:50:45,980 for and and it's no bald and in that 1041 00:50:51,700 --> 00:50:48,620 fashion and nearly all of the witnesses 1042 00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:51,710 said to me you know it was on the TV 1043 00:50:57,150 --> 00:50:54,410 news that night have you seen that if 1044 00:50:59,650 --> 00:50:57,160 you can get hold of that TV news film 1045 00:51:01,720 --> 00:50:59,660 that'd be fantastic that'd be a great 1046 00:51:03,100 --> 00:51:01,730 boon to your research Shane and we'd 1047 00:51:07,180 --> 00:51:03,110 certainly love to see that again 1048 00:51:09,940 --> 00:51:07,190 because a Channel 9 News crew came out 1049 00:51:12,340 --> 00:51:09,950 to the school that day and several of 1050 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:12,350 the witnesses in fact started giving 1051 00:51:16,570 --> 00:51:14,810 interviews to the journalists and the 1052 00:51:20,050 --> 00:51:16,580 camera people amassed at the front gate 1053 00:51:22,090 --> 00:51:20,060 of the school and a couple of the 1054 00:51:24,940 --> 00:51:22,100 witnesses remember very clearly the 1055 00:51:28,540 --> 00:51:24,950 interview being cut short one of the 1056 00:51:30,730 --> 00:51:28,550 witnesses a girl called joy remembers a 1057 00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:30,740 police officer tapping her on the 1058 00:51:35,470 --> 00:51:33,170 shoulder turning her around and saying 1059 00:51:38,530 --> 00:51:35,480 get back into school back into school 1060 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:38,540 and that police officer ordering the TV 1061 00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:41,450 news crew away from the school and then 1062 00:51:46,780 --> 00:51:44,210 a staff member a teacher coming out from 1063 00:51:48,730 --> 00:51:46,790 the school and taking her in and those 1064 00:51:50,350 --> 00:51:48,740 students who gave those interviews got 1065 00:51:52,690 --> 00:51:50,360 dealt with very harshly they were given 1066 00:51:56,230 --> 00:51:52,700 the tension they were they were punished 1067 00:51:59,320 --> 00:51:56,240 but some of that footage had already 1068 00:52:02,560 --> 00:51:59,330 been filmed and other footage was added 1069 00:52:05,410 --> 00:52:02,570 and it was broadcast on the melbourne 1070 00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:05,420 television news that night and for many 1071 00:52:09,610 --> 00:52:07,520 of the witnesses they remember racing 1072 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:09,620 out to their parents or older siblings 1073 00:52:14,620 --> 00:52:11,810 at home that night saying mum mum dad 1074 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:14,630 dad come in look I told you I wasn't 1075 00:52:18,910 --> 00:52:16,370 telling you a story there it is it 1076 00:52:21,130 --> 00:52:18,920 really happened it's on the news we've 1077 00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:21,140 tried very very hard of course to find 1078 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:25,040 that TV news film both with the channel 1079 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:25,490 9 1080 00:52:31,210 --> 00:52:28,490 TV news archive in Melbourne as well as 1081 00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:31,220 in Sydney but it's gone no one knows 1082 00:52:36,550 --> 00:52:33,890 where it's gone or why it's no longer 1083 00:52:40,090 --> 00:52:36,560 there it may simply have been thrown out 1084 00:52:44,230 --> 00:52:40,100 or or miss shelved as so much of that 1085 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:44,240 older archival material often is there 1086 00:52:51,540 --> 00:52:46,850 is however there is however this story 1087 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:51,550 that's been there for a long time that a 1088 00:52:56,890 --> 00:52:54,410 federal government minister 1089 00:53:00,010 --> 00:52:56,900 approached the proprietor of channel 9 1090 00:53:03,990 --> 00:53:00,020 at the time and demand that he take that 1091 00:53:08,370 --> 00:53:04,000 film out of the archive at channel 9 and 1092 00:53:10,930 --> 00:53:08,380 send it up to Sydney from Melbourne and 1093 00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:10,940 that it hasn't been seen ever since now 1094 00:53:16,510 --> 00:53:13,730 that proprietor is long since passed 1095 00:53:19,180 --> 00:53:16,520 away who that Minister might have been 1096 00:53:21,279 --> 00:53:19,190 the ministers who might have been 1097 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:21,289 relevant to the case have long since 1098 00:53:25,630 --> 00:53:22,490 passed away as well 1099 00:53:28,690 --> 00:53:25,640 so perhaps we'll never know but I was 1100 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:28,700 able to track down the TV reporter who 1101 00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:31,970 did the story that day and he's only 1102 00:53:38,140 --> 00:53:34,569 passed away just in the last few years 1103 00:53:40,510 --> 00:53:38,150 and he said to me Shane I remember this 1104 00:53:42,250 --> 00:53:40,520 story so well there are a lot of UFO 1105 00:53:44,740 --> 00:53:42,260 flying saucer stories being reported at 1106 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:44,750 the time but there was no story like 1107 00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:46,490 this because this happened in broad 1108 00:53:52,750 --> 00:53:49,250 daylight there were so many witnesses it 1109 00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:52,760 happened at these schools and when we 1110 00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:55,250 got down there the reaction of the kids 1111 00:53:59,680 --> 00:53:57,680 they were running around they were very 1112 00:54:01,900 --> 00:53:59,690 excited they were all wanting to talk to 1113 00:54:05,559 --> 00:54:01,910 us about what they had seen him they 1114 00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:05,569 wanted us to know that what it was was 1115 00:54:11,410 --> 00:54:07,130 something extraordinary they really had 1116 00:54:13,539 --> 00:54:11,420 seen a flying saucer and so I spoke to 1117 00:54:15,370 --> 00:54:13,549 him about 45 years after the event and 1118 00:54:17,380 --> 00:54:15,380 he still remembered it very well but 1119 00:54:20,769 --> 00:54:17,390 unfortunately he couldn't shed any light 1120 00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:20,779 on what had become of the TV news film 1121 00:54:25,109 --> 00:54:23,119 right you know one of my questions I was 1122 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:25,119 gonna ask you is have you talked to any 1123 00:54:31,450 --> 00:54:28,010 journalists and had you been able to 1124 00:54:33,549 --> 00:54:31,460 speak to any others besides him yes 1125 00:54:36,370 --> 00:54:33,559 indeed I was able to track down and 1126 00:54:39,099 --> 00:54:36,380 again this was very much a team effort I 1127 00:54:42,130 --> 00:54:39,109 must mention here again Rosie Jones the 1128 00:54:45,730 --> 00:54:42,140 director writer and editor for Westall 1129 00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:45,740 66 a suburban UFO mystery who also did a 1130 00:54:50,170 --> 00:54:48,170 lot of research particularly with people 1131 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:50,180 who were Melbourne based because Rosie 1132 00:54:54,309 --> 00:54:51,650 lives in Melbourne I live here in 1133 00:54:58,599 --> 00:54:54,319 Canberra so she was able to a lot of the 1134 00:55:01,870 --> 00:54:58,609 legwork in Melbourne and we were able to 1135 00:55:04,059 --> 00:55:01,880 track down the original Dandenong 1136 00:55:06,250 --> 00:55:04,069 Journal reporter who'd been sent out 1137 00:55:07,450 --> 00:55:06,260 that day by the newspaper to cover the 1138 00:55:10,810 --> 00:55:07,460 story 1139 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:10,820 and he remembers meeting up with some of 1140 00:55:16,030 --> 00:55:13,130 the students at the time at the school 1141 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:16,040 and he was very wary of what was going 1142 00:55:20,770 --> 00:55:18,410 on because he'd been told by the school 1143 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:20,780 authorities that he wasn't welcome that 1144 00:55:23,650 --> 00:55:22,130 he wasn't able to come until the school 1145 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:23,660 grounds that they wouldn't talk to him 1146 00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:25,610 and he knew that the students had been 1147 00:55:31,540 --> 00:55:28,510 warned off talking to him or any other 1148 00:55:33,940 --> 00:55:31,550 representatives from the media but he 1149 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:33,950 managed to get a few students who were 1150 00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:37,490 happy to take him down to the site of 1151 00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:40,130 where they remembered seeing the Flying 1152 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:43,490 Saucer come down unfortunately we have 1153 00:55:47,970 --> 00:55:45,290 his account of course written up in 1154 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:47,980 those Dandenong journal articles and 1155 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:51,170 he's been a great contact to have for 1156 00:55:56,620 --> 00:55:53,450 him it's also something he remembers 1157 00:55:59,650 --> 00:55:56,630 very well it was something he wasn't 1158 00:56:02,320 --> 00:55:59,660 able to provide an explanation for but 1159 00:56:04,990 --> 00:56:02,330 because he was a reporter there on the 1160 00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:05,000 ground at the time he was able to fill 1161 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:07,610 in and give us a lot of the sense of 1162 00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:10,010 that the atmosphere and the excitement 1163 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:14,000 and and the complete disarray that the 1164 00:56:18,310 --> 00:56:15,770 school was thrown into because very much 1165 00:56:20,140 --> 00:56:18,320 and and understandably this was very 1166 00:56:22,570 --> 00:56:20,150 much a concern for both the headmaster 1167 00:56:24,910 --> 00:56:22,580 and and the school staff in general the 1168 00:56:27,070 --> 00:56:24,920 school was run into disarray and they 1169 00:56:29,590 --> 00:56:27,080 were very very concerned for the 1170 00:56:32,260 --> 00:56:29,600 students and they understood that their 1171 00:56:33,730 --> 00:56:32,270 primary responsibilities as teachers was 1172 00:56:35,620 --> 00:56:33,740 to look after the welfare of the 1173 00:56:37,900 --> 00:56:35,630 students and of course that very much 1174 00:56:40,570 --> 00:56:37,910 explains a lot of their behavior that 1175 00:56:43,750 --> 00:56:40,580 day and trying to protect the students 1176 00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:43,760 and to keep the media at bay and and to 1177 00:56:51,150 --> 00:56:46,910 keep the students safe but one other one 1178 00:56:54,850 --> 00:56:51,160 other media person I should mention is a 1179 00:56:58,570 --> 00:56:54,860 news stringer a fella who a fellow who 1180 00:57:01,660 --> 00:56:58,580 worked for a range of news agencies in 1181 00:57:04,330 --> 00:57:01,670 Melbourne at the time and he heard a 1182 00:57:06,730 --> 00:57:04,340 broadcast a radio broadcast a news flash 1183 00:57:08,410 --> 00:57:06,740 on one of the radio stations in norborne 1184 00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:08,420 that something had happened out at 1185 00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:10,970 Westall high school and that the 1186 00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:13,850 students had seen a flying saucer and he 1187 00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:15,530 jumped into his car he was on the other 1188 00:57:19,559 --> 00:57:18,050 side of Melbourne working at the time 1189 00:57:21,569 --> 00:57:19,569 but he was from 1190 00:57:23,609 --> 00:57:21,579 part of melbourne the Westall part of 1191 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:23,619 melbourne and he knew the area very well 1192 00:57:29,459 --> 00:57:26,410 and raced over there and he tells the 1193 00:57:32,849 --> 00:57:29,469 story of getting to Westall and meeting 1194 00:57:36,359 --> 00:57:32,859 up with a police cordon they were 1195 00:57:38,910 --> 00:57:36,369 barricades set up police cars officers 1196 00:57:40,349 --> 00:57:38,920 in uniform and he couldn't get in and he 1197 00:57:42,180 --> 00:57:40,359 tried a couple of different entry points 1198 00:57:44,249 --> 00:57:42,190 in you all of the entry points into 1199 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:44,259 Westall they were all blocked well I 1200 00:57:49,620 --> 00:57:47,410 couldn't close and then he tried again 1201 00:57:51,569 --> 00:57:49,630 later in the day at the end of the day 1202 00:57:54,029 --> 00:57:51,579 the cordon had gone the officers had 1203 00:57:57,359 --> 00:57:54,039 gone and he managed to go down to the 1204 00:57:59,370 --> 00:57:57,369 Grange and he saw for himself what many 1205 00:58:02,009 --> 00:57:59,380 of the students had seen these huge 1206 00:58:05,249 --> 00:58:02,019 circles of flattened grass in the 1207 00:58:07,019 --> 00:58:05,259 paddocks Wow now when this documentary 1208 00:58:09,089 --> 00:58:07,029 came out did you say it was just a few 1209 00:58:11,789 --> 00:58:09,099 years ago that's right the documentary 1210 00:58:16,589 --> 00:58:11,799 was broadcast on the sci-fi channel here 1211 00:58:19,890 --> 00:58:16,599 in Australia in 2010 it was recast again 1212 00:58:21,689 --> 00:58:19,900 in 2011 unfortunately it hasn't had a 1213 00:58:23,969 --> 00:58:21,699 television broadcast outside of 1214 00:58:26,519 --> 00:58:23,979 Australia it's had a few Film Festival 1215 00:58:29,449 --> 00:58:26,529 broadcasts screenings in other countries 1216 00:58:31,979 --> 00:58:29,459 but in terms of TV only in Australia 1217 00:58:35,489 --> 00:58:31,989 well the the thing that comes to mind 1218 00:58:39,089 --> 00:58:35,499 when I think about that is with that 1219 00:58:41,939 --> 00:58:39,099 being broadcast did any new witnesses 1220 00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:41,949 come out of the woodwork that saw the 1221 00:58:46,469 --> 00:58:44,170 film and wanted to talk about it did any 1222 00:58:48,390 --> 00:58:46,479 new information come out after that 1223 00:58:51,559 --> 00:58:48,400 aired not and when the broadcast 1224 00:58:55,499 --> 00:58:51,569 happened there was almost an avalanche 1225 00:58:58,229 --> 00:58:55,509 we started receiving a lot of 1226 00:59:00,749 --> 00:58:58,239 information from a whole stack of 1227 00:59:03,959 --> 00:59:00,759 witnesses that we hadn't but I hadn't 1228 00:59:05,910 --> 00:59:03,969 made contact with here the two people 1229 00:59:08,099 --> 00:59:05,920 who had seen the broadcast had seen the 1230 00:59:11,219 --> 00:59:08,109 documentary and decided to make contact 1231 00:59:13,559 --> 00:59:11,229 with with me which was which was 1232 00:59:15,329 --> 00:59:13,569 incredible and we started gathering a 1233 00:59:17,249 --> 00:59:15,339 whole lot of other information a lot of 1234 00:59:19,380 --> 00:59:17,259 the information of course was was 1235 00:59:21,180 --> 00:59:19,390 similar to what I'd received earlier was 1236 00:59:24,539 --> 00:59:21,190 an affirmation of many of the other 1237 00:59:26,579 --> 00:59:24,549 witness accounts and one of the 1238 00:59:30,569 --> 00:59:26,589 responses I'd like to share with you now 1239 00:59:32,849 --> 00:59:30,579 if you've got time sure we received an 1240 00:59:33,750 --> 00:59:32,859 email this came through the website of 1241 00:59:37,020 --> 00:59:33,760 the 1242 00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:37,030 you mentoree and it was addressed to 1243 00:59:43,710 --> 00:59:40,510 Carmel McAloon Carmel is the producer 1244 00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:43,720 for Westall 66 in Carmel forwarded on to 1245 00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:48,810 me and it was from a woman who in 1966 1246 00:59:56,910 --> 00:59:54,310 was a 9 year old girl and she was the 1247 00:59:59,700 --> 00:59:56,920 daughter of a man who was a very 1248 01:00:02,250 --> 00:59:59,710 high-ranking federal public servant at 1249 01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:02,260 the time and this is what she wrote to 1250 01:00:06,810 --> 01:00:05,170 me I am writing to you because I hadn't 1251 01:00:09,570 --> 01:00:06,820 realized there were so many other 1252 01:00:14,490 --> 01:00:09,580 witnesses to an event that my father was 1253 01:00:17,970 --> 01:00:14,500 involved with in 1966 my father was the 1254 01:00:20,460 --> 01:00:17,980 fourth highest ranking public servant in 1255 01:00:22,650 --> 01:00:20,470 the department of supply in Melbourne 1256 01:00:25,110 --> 01:00:22,660 and just to let you know there Martin 1257 01:00:27,750 --> 01:00:25,120 the department of supply was a huge 1258 01:00:31,070 --> 01:00:27,760 Australian federal government department 1259 01:00:34,620 --> 01:00:31,080 that was involved in the procurement of 1260 01:00:38,100 --> 01:00:34,630 military equipment and hardware for the 1261 01:00:40,970 --> 01:00:38,110 various military services in Australia 1262 01:00:45,780 --> 01:00:40,980 and her father had a particular 1263 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:45,790 responsibility for aircraft and she went 1264 01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:48,010 on to write that during this period my 1265 01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:50,770 father headed the team that selected the 1266 01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:54,490 f-111 aircraft and was the senior 1267 01:01:00,420 --> 01:00:57,090 defense point of contact for other 1268 01:01:02,310 --> 01:01:00,430 Department of Defence senior officers he 1269 01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:02,320 was a brilliant intellect adducts 1270 01:01:06,870 --> 01:01:04,450 in high school first-class honors in 1271 01:01:09,300 --> 01:01:06,880 engineering he had a science degree in 1272 01:01:11,820 --> 01:01:09,310 electronics and he did all of this in 1273 01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:11,830 three years he was involved in the 1274 01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:14,170 setting up of the first radar and Darwin 1275 01:01:20,130 --> 01:01:16,810 during World War two he was a specialist 1276 01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:20,140 electronic engineer and he was involved 1277 01:01:24,810 --> 01:01:22,210 in building the first computer in 1278 01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:24,820 Australia and she goes on to write that 1279 01:01:29,070 --> 01:01:26,890 I mentioned this just so that you know 1280 01:01:33,090 --> 01:01:29,080 that he was not a fool or someone who 1281 01:01:35,340 --> 01:01:33,100 would dream up what he saw and she 1282 01:01:37,980 --> 01:01:35,350 writes I do not know how he was involved 1283 01:01:40,860 --> 01:01:37,990 in the sighting of this object he was 1284 01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:40,870 however told by someone senior to him 1285 01:01:46,620 --> 01:01:43,690 and they weren't that many people senior 1286 01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:46,630 to him that if he were to speak of this 1287 01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:47,170 incident 1288 01:01:54,599 --> 01:01:51,040 to anyone he would lose his job he used 1289 01:01:57,539 --> 01:01:54,609 to say that he knew what he saw he was 1290 01:02:00,809 --> 01:01:57,549 very angry that this event was not seen 1291 01:02:03,930 --> 01:02:00,819 as an opportunity he was intimidated on 1292 01:02:06,870 --> 01:02:03,940 a regular basis about what he saw by 1293 01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:06,880 other officials and told that a person 1294 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:08,770 in his position could not be taken 1295 01:02:14,220 --> 01:02:11,770 seriously if he were to speak of it he 1296 01:02:17,609 --> 01:02:14,230 was a respected point of contact for the 1297 01:02:20,220 --> 01:02:17,619 Americans the French and the Italians as 1298 01:02:23,780 --> 01:02:20,230 they were all in the market for selling 1299 01:02:26,339 --> 01:02:23,790 us being the Australians their aircraft 1300 01:02:29,069 --> 01:02:26,349 she goes on to write I knew about the 1301 01:02:31,859 --> 01:02:29,079 object he saw from very early on in the 1302 01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:31,869 event and I was also told not to speak 1303 01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:34,450 of it to my school friends teacher or 1304 01:02:40,829 --> 01:02:38,290 anyone I was 10 years old and after my 1305 01:02:43,470 --> 01:02:40,839 father said we were not to speak of it 1306 01:02:46,380 --> 01:02:43,480 my mother continued to talk to me about 1307 01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:46,390 it mostly because of the torment my 1308 01:02:52,500 --> 01:02:49,210 father appeared to be going through over 1309 01:02:54,470 --> 01:02:52,510 this Westville incident my father came 1310 01:02:56,819 --> 01:02:54,480 to work for the department of supply 1311 01:02:59,640 --> 01:02:56,829 after he was approached for this 1312 01:03:03,240 --> 01:02:59,650 position while manager of civil aviation 1313 01:03:05,549 --> 01:03:03,250 in Sydney he held this very important 1314 01:03:07,799 --> 01:03:05,559 position in Melbourne with the 1315 01:03:11,099 --> 01:03:07,809 department of supply from 1960 until 1316 01:03:13,559 --> 01:03:11,109 1968 he then continued in this position 1317 01:03:15,900 --> 01:03:13,569 in Canberra when the department's 1318 01:03:21,049 --> 01:03:15,910 headquarters moved from Melbourne to 1319 01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:21,059 Canberra until his early death in 1970 1320 01:03:31,230 --> 01:03:26,890 and she went on to write that she felt 1321 01:03:33,150 --> 01:03:31,240 very strongly that whatever happened in 1322 01:03:35,940 --> 01:03:33,160 relation to her father and what he saw 1323 01:03:39,630 --> 01:03:35,950 at Westall and his attempts to get 1324 01:03:43,530 --> 01:03:39,640 answers for what had happened and the 1325 01:03:46,620 --> 01:03:43,540 way he was treated by the department by 1326 01:03:48,180 --> 01:03:46,630 agents of the government after that that 1327 01:03:50,789 --> 01:03:48,190 it very much contributed to his 1328 01:03:55,289 --> 01:03:50,799 premature death just a few for a few 1329 01:03:57,329 --> 01:03:55,299 four short years later in 1970 so after 1330 01:03:58,980 --> 01:03:57,339 that initial email came through we had a 1331 01:04:01,110 --> 01:03:58,990 few other email 1332 01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:01,120 that was also able to contact her 1333 01:04:08,250 --> 01:04:05,530 brother who was able to confirm much of 1334 01:04:10,980 --> 01:04:08,260 what his sister had said and he also 1335 01:04:13,380 --> 01:04:10,990 confirmed that his father had gone out 1336 01:04:16,050 --> 01:04:13,390 to west saw had investigated what had 1337 01:04:19,170 --> 01:04:16,060 happened and that indeed he'd been dealt 1338 01:04:23,370 --> 01:04:19,180 with very harshly and that there was at 1339 01:04:25,410 --> 01:04:23,380 some level some sort of cover-up some 1340 01:04:27,870 --> 01:04:25,420 sort of covering over of what had 1341 01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:27,880 happened that day it Westall whatever it 1342 01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:30,970 was whatever was behind it it was 1343 01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:33,330 something that couldn't be spoken about 1344 01:04:39,210 --> 01:04:37,090 well what what's your opinion of why do 1345 01:04:42,090 --> 01:04:39,220 you think it things like this are 1346 01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:42,100 covered up you think it's fear-based 1347 01:04:48,030 --> 01:04:45,490 you think it's national security what's 1348 01:04:49,710 --> 01:04:48,040 your thoughts on that that's a really 1349 01:04:51,780 --> 01:04:49,720 difficult question to answer because 1350 01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:51,790 it's a question that I ask myself every 1351 01:04:57,030 --> 01:04:54,130 day of course in it sir answering that 1352 01:04:59,310 --> 01:04:57,040 question is an ongoing issue and I guess 1353 01:05:06,150 --> 01:04:59,320 to be honest with you when I started my 1354 01:05:07,740 --> 01:05:06,160 research in 2005 I was hoping that I'd 1355 01:05:10,500 --> 01:05:07,750 be able to find answers to what had 1356 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:10,510 happened at Westall reasonably quickly I 1357 01:05:15,810 --> 01:05:12,970 was hoping that I could find some sort 1358 01:05:17,430 --> 01:05:15,820 of solution to this mystery to me didn't 1359 01:05:19,050 --> 01:05:17,440 particularly matter what the solution 1360 01:05:21,780 --> 01:05:19,060 was I was happy for it to be something 1361 01:05:24,270 --> 01:05:21,790 utterly prosaic something that was 1362 01:05:25,590 --> 01:05:24,280 misinterpreted perhaps most of the story 1363 01:05:28,710 --> 01:05:25,600 was an urban legend 1364 01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:28,720 perhaps hadn't even really happened it 1365 01:05:36,140 --> 01:05:30,970 really didn't worry me but just finding 1366 01:05:40,830 --> 01:05:36,150 an answer became important and I guess 1367 01:05:43,290 --> 01:05:40,840 being an Australian being a member a 1368 01:05:45,030 --> 01:05:43,300 citizen of this country which we 1369 01:05:47,390 --> 01:05:45,040 consider I certainly consider to be a 1370 01:05:50,610 --> 01:05:47,400 very vibrant and quite successful 1371 01:05:54,060 --> 01:05:50,620 democracy a country where we certainly 1372 01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:54,070 though you freedom and and transparency 1373 01:06:00,300 --> 01:05:57,250 in government and open speech and and 1374 01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:00,310 liberties and I think we're a pretty 1375 01:06:04,260 --> 01:06:02,290 good example of of those sorts of things 1376 01:06:08,490 --> 01:06:04,270 in this world we're certainly not 1377 01:06:10,170 --> 01:06:08,500 perfect no country no democracy is but I 1378 01:06:12,090 --> 01:06:10,180 wanted to think that in a country like 1379 01:06:12,620 --> 01:06:12,100 Australia perhaps different from some 1380 01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:12,630 other kind 1381 01:06:18,770 --> 01:06:15,450 and I won't name those countries that 1382 01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:18,780 sense of the covering up of these sorts 1383 01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:22,410 of incidents that that goes on that 1384 01:06:27,890 --> 01:06:25,410 sense of the ordinary citizen not being 1385 01:06:29,990 --> 01:06:27,900 able to finances that that wouldn't 1386 01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:30,000 apply here that that wouldn't happen 1387 01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:33,210 here and Here I am eight years after 1388 01:06:40,270 --> 01:06:37,290 starting my research still meeting blank 1389 01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:40,280 walls brick walls after brick walls 1390 01:06:46,250 --> 01:06:42,770 approaching various government agencies 1391 01:06:48,590 --> 01:06:46,260 trying to find a document trail trying 1392 01:06:52,340 --> 01:06:48,600 to find some sort of documentary 1393 01:06:55,070 --> 01:06:52,350 evidence paper evidence for the 1394 01:06:58,340 --> 01:06:55,080 involvement by the many government 1395 01:07:00,980 --> 01:06:58,350 agencies both local state and federal 1396 01:07:03,230 --> 01:07:00,990 agencies that so many of the witnesses 1397 01:07:06,980 --> 01:07:03,240 attest have been at West all that day 1398 01:07:10,010 --> 01:07:06,990 and the subsequent days and it's still 1399 01:07:13,220 --> 01:07:10,020 an ongoing frustration so I have to 1400 01:07:15,500 --> 01:07:13,230 confess that it's been a really 1401 01:07:17,690 --> 01:07:15,510 interesting journey this Westall journey 1402 01:07:20,510 --> 01:07:17,700 and that I've learned a lot along the 1403 01:07:23,300 --> 01:07:20,520 way but it's been as most UFO 1404 01:07:25,730 --> 01:07:23,310 researchers would of course tell you and 1405 01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:25,740 you yourself know so well a very 1406 01:07:31,730 --> 01:07:29,730 frustrating journey because there are 1407 01:07:35,390 --> 01:07:31,740 limits there are limits I think to what 1408 01:07:38,180 --> 01:07:35,400 we as individual or as even group 1409 01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:38,190 researchers are able to achieve I think 1410 01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:40,770 in a nutshell whatever happened at 1411 01:07:48,650 --> 01:07:44,510 Westall even after 47 years have passed 1412 01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:48,660 it seems to be that whatever it was 1413 01:07:55,870 --> 01:07:51,650 there must still be some sort of 1414 01:07:58,910 --> 01:07:55,880 national security implications because 1415 01:08:00,970 --> 01:07:58,920 it's still not talked about the 1416 01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:00,980 information is still not being released 1417 01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:04,170 we're not getting any public affirmation 1418 01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:07,200 from anybody who might have been in 1419 01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:10,050 charge at an official level at that time 1420 01:08:16,849 --> 01:08:13,530 to what it was that was going on in West 1421 01:08:19,670 --> 01:08:16,859 or that day and so one can't help but 1422 01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:19,680 think that it has national security 1423 01:08:26,010 --> 01:08:23,290 implications now whether that mean 1424 01:08:28,050 --> 01:08:26,020 the people from the authorities who were 1425 01:08:32,150 --> 01:08:28,060 there that day whether they were Air 1426 01:08:36,210 --> 01:08:32,160 Force or intelligence organization or 1427 01:08:38,550 --> 01:08:36,220 scientists or police whether they were 1428 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:38,560 able to solve the problem whether they 1429 01:08:44,910 --> 01:08:42,010 even knew what had gone on whether they 1430 01:08:49,050 --> 01:08:44,920 had a handle on it then or even have a 1431 01:08:51,420 --> 01:08:49,060 handle on it now I'm not so sure I'm not 1432 01:08:54,300 --> 01:08:51,430 so sure perhaps there is much in the 1433 01:08:57,540 --> 01:08:54,310 darkest as we all are but we live in 1434 01:09:00,090 --> 01:08:57,550 hunt right all right look at the 1435 01:09:03,540 --> 01:09:00,100 statistics of the listeners of the 1436 01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:03,550 podcast and Australia is number three as 1437 01:09:10,650 --> 01:09:07,330 far as the United States first secondly 1438 01:09:13,050 --> 01:09:10,660 is the UK and third is Australia 1439 01:09:16,890 --> 01:09:13,060 followed by Canada and it makes me 1440 01:09:19,260 --> 01:09:16,900 wonder if there's a lot of sightings in 1441 01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:19,270 Australia and always has been what 1442 01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:21,010 what's your what your thoughts on that 1443 01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:23,410 I'm really pleasantly surprised to hear 1444 01:09:28,260 --> 01:09:24,850 that statistic I think that's wonderful 1445 01:09:30,710 --> 01:09:28,270 and and good on you Australia for a 1446 01:09:33,570 --> 01:09:30,720 country with only 23 million people 1447 01:09:37,530 --> 01:09:33,580 which is the population of some cities 1448 01:09:40,980 --> 01:09:37,540 oversight in New York yes exactly 1449 01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:40,990 exactly so I think in in like we do in 1450 01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:42,850 lots of areas we we punch above our 1451 01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:48,610 weight but look in terms of UFOs most of 1452 01:09:52,440 --> 01:09:50,890 my research has concentrated very much 1453 01:09:55,020 --> 01:09:52,450 on this particular incident but of 1454 01:09:59,180 --> 01:09:55,030 course I've had to look at the wider the 1455 01:10:02,430 --> 01:09:59,190 wider picture when it comes to UFO 1456 01:10:04,260 --> 01:10:02,440 sightings in Australia and to get a 1457 01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:04,270 better feel for all of that and 1458 01:10:11,130 --> 01:10:07,810 certainly both at this time in in the 1459 01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:11,140 1960s but more broadly there have been a 1460 01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:13,690 lot of UFO sightings in Australia over 1461 01:10:20,970 --> 01:10:16,090 the years and dating back all the way 1462 01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:20,980 back to the at least late 1800s and 1463 01:10:27,300 --> 01:10:24,370 right up to the present day now it may 1464 01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:27,310 be because we have a lot of clear skies 1465 01:10:33,390 --> 01:10:29,650 in Australia and not so much like 1466 01:10:36,050 --> 01:10:33,400 pollution I'm not sure perhaps people in 1467 01:10:38,690 --> 01:10:36,060 Australia do a lot of looking up and 1468 01:10:41,870 --> 01:10:38,700 not sure what it is but certainly 1469 01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:41,880 there's a very long and rich history of 1470 01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:44,850 UFO stories in Australia and of course 1471 01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:48,570 there's a whole range of wonderful UFO 1472 01:10:54,380 --> 01:10:52,170 researchers that have gone before me and 1473 01:10:56,300 --> 01:10:54,390 researchers who have who have researched 1474 01:10:57,770 --> 01:10:56,310 the field much more broadly than I have 1475 01:11:00,710 --> 01:10:57,780 them and you would know some of those 1476 01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:00,720 people yourself Martin people like Bill 1477 01:11:07,250 --> 01:11:04,050 Chalker and Keith Bester field and there 1478 01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:07,260 are many others as well and we have a 1479 01:11:14,930 --> 01:11:11,090 very very rich tradition in Australia of 1480 01:11:18,140 --> 01:11:14,940 having flying saucer in later UFO 1481 01:11:22,550 --> 01:11:18,150 research societies around the different 1482 01:11:24,740 --> 01:11:22,560 states of Australia and although the 1483 01:11:27,500 --> 01:11:24,750 nature of those societies has changed a 1484 01:11:30,230 --> 01:11:27,510 lot in recent times they've become much 1485 01:11:31,220 --> 01:11:30,240 more loosely connected much more 1486 01:11:33,860 --> 01:11:31,230 internet-based 1487 01:11:36,020 --> 01:11:33,870 there are still organizations operating 1488 01:11:40,490 --> 01:11:36,030 and I think that interest is still very 1489 01:11:45,740 --> 01:11:40,500 much there right now just jumping back 1490 01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:45,750 to the West our area was there other 1491 01:11:50,870 --> 01:11:48,330 sightings close to that area 1492 01:11:53,210 --> 01:11:50,880 you hear about things extraordinary like 1493 01:11:55,340 --> 01:11:53,220 this happening and then they're either 1494 01:11:58,100 --> 01:11:55,350 followed by sightings or the reciting 1495 01:12:01,970 --> 01:11:58,110 previously right in that very area have 1496 01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:01,980 you heard anything about that soul well 1497 01:12:08,900 --> 01:12:05,930 what happened in that particular week in 1498 01:12:11,180 --> 01:12:08,910 1966 around Melbourne was rather 1499 01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:11,190 extraordinary because there were two 1500 01:12:17,300 --> 01:12:13,650 other fascinating incidents which did 1501 01:12:21,530 --> 01:12:17,310 occur one happened four days before west 1502 01:12:23,900 --> 01:12:21,540 also on the 2nd of April 1966 when a man 1503 01:12:26,450 --> 01:12:23,910 was in the garden of his mother's home 1504 01:12:28,130 --> 01:12:26,460 in a place called ball and a suburb of 1505 01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:28,140 Melbourne about 20 kilometers from 1506 01:12:34,340 --> 01:12:30,930 Westall and he snapped using a Polaroid 1507 01:12:39,470 --> 01:12:34,350 camera a photograph of a flying saucer 1508 01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:39,480 above the house and if anyone puts in 1509 01:12:44,150 --> 01:12:41,850 ball one UFO photo into their search 1510 01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:44,160 engine it'll come up very quickly and 1511 01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:46,080 and for many people that photograph will 1512 01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:49,770 be very familiar it's been reproduced on 1513 01:12:54,860 --> 01:12:52,890 internet sites and even in books many 1514 01:12:57,580 --> 01:12:54,870 times over the years and the man who 1515 01:13:01,480 --> 01:12:57,590 told that photograph who's now I think 1516 01:13:04,190 --> 01:13:01,490 in his late 70s perhaps early to mid 80s 1517 01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:04,200 still after all these years stands very 1518 01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:08,250 firmly by that photograph that he took I 1519 01:13:12,770 --> 01:13:10,050 don't know really anything more about 1520 01:13:14,990 --> 01:13:12,780 that particular photograph than that but 1521 01:13:17,420 --> 01:13:15,000 that was certainly part of the same part 1522 01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:17,430 of the milieu in Melbourne during that 1523 01:13:23,810 --> 01:13:21,810 particular time and and then just two 1524 01:13:27,950 --> 01:13:23,820 days before the Westall incident so on 1525 01:13:30,950 --> 01:13:27,960 the 4th of April 1966 there was an 1526 01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:30,960 incident you may have heard of the bent 1527 01:13:37,850 --> 01:13:35,010 or bending headlights UFO case a man 1528 01:13:39,710 --> 01:13:37,860 named Ron Sullivan was driving along a 1529 01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:39,720 country highway in a place called 1530 01:13:47,210 --> 01:13:43,290 Burke's flat about 200 kilometres from 1531 01:13:51,410 --> 01:13:47,220 Melbourne and he saw this light display 1532 01:13:53,570 --> 01:13:51,420 off to the side in a paddock adjacent to 1533 01:13:56,180 --> 01:13:53,580 the road he was driving on and then a 1534 01:14:00,800 --> 01:13:56,190 second or two later the headlights on 1535 01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:00,810 his car were drawn off the road off to 1536 01:14:07,940 --> 01:14:05,040 the side towards the towards the paddock 1537 01:14:08,780 --> 01:14:07,950 and he immediately began to lose control 1538 01:14:11,510 --> 01:14:08,790 of the car 1539 01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:11,520 and he had to wrestle with the car 1540 01:14:16,220 --> 01:14:13,770 wrestled with the steering wheel to get 1541 01:14:18,620 --> 01:14:16,230 it back onto the road and to avert a 1542 01:14:22,430 --> 01:14:18,630 collision with the gum trees that were 1543 01:14:24,830 --> 01:14:22,440 on the side of the road and he saw this 1544 01:14:29,030 --> 01:14:24,840 amazing display of Lights ascending and 1545 01:14:30,650 --> 01:14:29,040 descending in this paddock and then on a 1546 01:14:34,010 --> 01:14:30,660 few days later in fact it was the day 1547 01:14:37,250 --> 01:14:34,020 after West or the 7th of April there was 1548 01:14:39,140 --> 01:14:37,260 an incident a fatality another man was 1549 01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:39,150 driving on that very same stretch of 1550 01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:42,570 road and collided with apparently 1551 01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:45,690 according to Ron Sullivan the very same 1552 01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:48,690 gum tree that he narrowly avoided 1553 01:14:54,890 --> 01:14:51,930 crashing into and unfortunately that 1554 01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:54,900 other man suffered fatal injuries that 1555 01:15:00,620 --> 01:14:56,970 was killed in their car crash and when 1556 01:15:03,180 --> 01:15:00,630 Ron Sullivan heard about the story a day 1557 01:15:05,250 --> 01:15:03,190 later he went straight to the police 1558 01:15:07,110 --> 01:15:05,260 and told them the story of what had 1559 01:15:10,500 --> 01:15:07,120 happened to him just a few days early in 1560 01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:10,510 that very same spot and that involved 1561 01:15:15,890 --> 01:15:13,840 then an investigation and newspapers Ron 1562 01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:15,900 Sullivan went back out to the site of 1563 01:15:22,890 --> 01:15:19,570 the collision and in the paddock where 1564 01:15:25,050 --> 01:15:22,900 he'd seen the display of lights sure 1565 01:15:28,230 --> 01:15:25,060 enough there was this unusual 1566 01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:28,240 indentation in the soil in this 1567 01:15:35,700 --> 01:15:33,130 otherwise undisturbed paddock and the 1568 01:15:39,480 --> 01:15:35,710 air force came to Ron Sullivan's house 1569 01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:39,490 and made an investigation of his car and 1570 01:15:44,940 --> 01:15:42,130 checked the headlights and checked the 1571 01:15:47,340 --> 01:15:44,950 car all over and assured Ron that they 1572 01:15:49,530 --> 01:15:47,350 would send the report to him and keep 1573 01:15:52,530 --> 01:15:49,540 him up to date with what they found but 1574 01:15:54,870 --> 01:15:52,540 unfortunately they never did so those 1575 01:15:56,670 --> 01:15:54,880 were a couple of other interesting cases 1576 01:15:59,610 --> 01:15:56,680 which were happening just in that very 1577 01:16:03,680 --> 01:15:59,620 same week in and around Melbourne right 1578 01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:03,690 now I had heard that case about the 1579 01:16:10,620 --> 01:16:08,050 vehicle being pulled or in the fatality 1580 01:16:13,410 --> 01:16:10,630 and all that and it seems like there was 1581 01:16:15,510 --> 01:16:13,420 another incident at some point in 1582 01:16:18,210 --> 01:16:15,520 Australia where there was I'm not sure 1583 01:16:21,300 --> 01:16:18,220 exactly what it was in the interior of 1584 01:16:23,790 --> 01:16:21,310 Australia where a car was drawn off the 1585 01:16:26,970 --> 01:16:23,800 road from a UFO yes I think you're 1586 01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:26,980 referring to an incident which involved 1587 01:16:32,030 --> 01:16:30,250 a family by the name of Knowles and they 1588 01:16:35,850 --> 01:16:32,040 were driving across the Nullarbor plain 1589 01:16:39,510 --> 01:16:35,860 which is that extraordinary very arid 1590 01:16:41,220 --> 01:16:39,520 treeless plain in Western Australia and 1591 01:16:44,810 --> 01:16:41,230 South Australia and and there's a very 1592 01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:44,820 long deserted highway that connects 1593 01:16:49,140 --> 01:16:47,170 Adelaide the state capital city of South 1594 01:16:53,250 --> 01:16:49,150 Australia with Perth the capital city of 1595 01:16:55,260 --> 01:16:53,260 Western Australia and that story 1596 01:16:57,540 --> 01:16:55,270 happened much later I can't remember the 1597 01:17:00,120 --> 01:16:57,550 exact date I think it was from memory in 1598 01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:00,130 the 1980s but I may be wrong it's very 1599 01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:02,290 well I think was a very well researched 1600 01:17:07,950 --> 01:17:05,650 case I don't know much about the the 1601 01:17:11,210 --> 01:17:07,960 final results of that case but it was a 1602 01:17:14,850 --> 01:17:11,220 case involving them travelling along and 1603 01:17:16,550 --> 01:17:14,860 the car being lifted up at some point 1604 01:17:18,980 --> 01:17:16,560 right and then 1605 01:17:20,570 --> 01:17:18,990 down onto the road and they were very 1606 01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:20,580 much affected by what had happened they 1607 01:17:25,970 --> 01:17:24,330 were very distraught but I really don't 1608 01:17:26,510 --> 01:17:25,980 know much more about that case than that 1609 01:17:30,010 --> 01:17:26,520 I'm afraid 1610 01:17:33,770 --> 01:17:30,020 yeah so you have violent UFOs there I 1611 01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:33,780 think we have the whole cross-section of 1612 01:17:41,060 --> 01:17:38,450 UFOs from very benign to less benign 1613 01:17:43,220 --> 01:17:41,070 which I guess is what you see in most 1614 01:17:47,260 --> 01:17:43,230 other parts of the world as well yeah 1615 01:17:49,190 --> 01:17:47,270 you had an opening for the West all 1616 01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:49,200 playground can you talk about that that 1617 01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:51,570 was December 12th just a like ten days 1618 01:17:54,170 --> 01:17:51,930 ago 1619 01:17:56,960 --> 01:17:54,180 sure look I'd love to talk about that 1620 01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:56,970 very much because one of the things that 1621 01:18:00,800 --> 01:17:58,800 I think is really important to remember 1622 01:18:03,860 --> 01:18:00,810 about this Westall incident is it's a 1623 01:18:05,540 --> 01:18:03,870 very outstanding case not just on the 1624 01:18:08,150 --> 01:18:05,550 Australian stage but on the world stage 1625 01:18:10,310 --> 01:18:08,160 because obviously when people in the 1626 01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:10,320 general community think about UFOs they 1627 01:18:14,990 --> 01:18:12,960 think about one or two lights in the sky 1628 01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:15,000 someone perhaps out in the bush or in a 1629 01:18:19,700 --> 01:18:17,730 country area seeing something late at 1630 01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:19,710 night but of course the Westall was very 1631 01:18:23,540 --> 01:18:21,090 the Westall incident was very different 1632 01:18:25,850 --> 01:18:23,550 it was a daylight sighting involving 1633 01:18:29,210 --> 01:18:25,860 hundreds of people children and adults 1634 01:18:31,460 --> 01:18:29,220 and it involved not just a sighting of 1635 01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:31,470 something flying in the sky but of 1636 01:18:36,710 --> 01:18:33,570 course something landing and then 1637 01:18:39,440 --> 01:18:36,720 leaving behind a trace in the in the 1638 01:18:41,300 --> 01:18:39,450 grass on the ground and then in addition 1639 01:18:43,250 --> 01:18:41,310 to that there was and we haven't talked 1640 01:18:45,890 --> 01:18:43,260 a great deal about this yet but this 1641 01:18:48,410 --> 01:18:45,900 incredible response to what it was that 1642 01:18:52,370 --> 01:18:48,420 happened at Westall this response by the 1643 01:18:55,850 --> 01:18:52,380 government authorities response by the 1644 01:18:58,550 --> 01:18:55,860 police by military officers whether they 1645 01:19:01,000 --> 01:18:58,560 were Air Force or Army some sort of 1646 01:19:04,490 --> 01:19:01,010 military officers the Civil Defence 1647 01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:04,500 organisation responded to separate fire 1648 01:19:09,590 --> 01:19:07,650 brigades a professional fire brigade and 1649 01:19:12,170 --> 01:19:09,600 a volunteer fire brigade from two 1650 01:19:14,510 --> 01:19:12,180 separate fire stations the ambulance 1651 01:19:17,210 --> 01:19:14,520 service was involved so there was his 1652 01:19:21,170 --> 01:19:17,220 incredible response both at the school 1653 01:19:23,870 --> 01:19:21,180 and down at the Grange as well and so 1654 01:19:26,150 --> 01:19:23,880 many of the witnesses when I approached 1655 01:19:28,010 --> 01:19:26,160 them and interviewed them and and please 1656 01:19:29,510 --> 01:19:28,020 remember that of course at this stage 1657 01:19:34,010 --> 01:19:29,520 I've been in contact now 1658 01:19:36,470 --> 01:19:34,020 with 93 people who remember seeing the 1659 01:19:38,930 --> 01:19:36,480 Flying Saucer and a hundred and 1660 01:19:41,990 --> 01:19:38,940 forty-five people who saw the circle 1661 01:19:44,330 --> 01:19:42,000 left behind by the Flying Saucer and and 1662 01:19:47,660 --> 01:19:44,340 59 people who were lucky enough to see 1663 01:19:49,340 --> 01:19:47,670 both so answer it's a sizeable number of 1664 01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:49,350 witnesses of course and I'm very 1665 01:19:53,690 --> 01:19:52,170 conscious as the researcher that there 1666 01:19:57,560 --> 01:19:53,700 are so many more people that I haven't 1667 01:19:59,720 --> 01:19:57,570 yet been able to contact but nearly 1668 01:20:02,590 --> 01:19:59,730 every single person out of that group 1669 01:20:05,210 --> 01:20:02,600 I've just mentioned has said to me 1670 01:20:07,870 --> 01:20:05,220 you've really got to chase this up Shane 1671 01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:07,880 because we saw people there in uniform 1672 01:20:14,390 --> 01:20:10,170 we saw the police 1673 01:20:16,580 --> 01:20:14,400 we saw the airforce people we saw the 1674 01:20:17,810 --> 01:20:16,590 people in dark colored suits who didn't 1675 01:20:22,340 --> 01:20:17,820 belong at the school that we'd never 1676 01:20:24,050 --> 01:20:22,350 seen before and so there must have been 1677 01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:24,060 something very important that happened 1678 01:20:29,090 --> 01:20:26,970 that day and whatever it was those 1679 01:20:34,580 --> 01:20:29,100 people who came out they just didn't 1680 01:20:37,940 --> 01:20:34,590 come out for no reason so for me getting 1681 01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:37,950 recognition that all of these people had 1682 01:20:42,530 --> 01:20:40,410 had this experience many of them as 1683 01:20:44,660 --> 01:20:42,540 children but also teachers and local 1684 01:20:47,690 --> 01:20:44,670 residents and witnesses that this 1685 01:20:51,230 --> 01:20:47,700 experience had happened and that they'd 1686 01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:51,240 been told at the time very quickly very 1687 01:20:55,850 --> 01:20:54,090 early on that they want to talk about it 1688 01:20:58,400 --> 01:20:55,860 and what happened at Westall was to stay 1689 01:21:02,060 --> 01:20:58,410 at Westall - finally after all of these 1690 01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:02,070 years get recognition for them to 1691 01:21:07,910 --> 01:21:04,170 provide acknowledgement for them that 1692 01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:07,920 what had happened had happened and that 1693 01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:11,130 this is part of the process of trying to 1694 01:21:19,330 --> 01:21:16,770 find answers for them so in 2011 I wrote 1695 01:21:23,570 --> 01:21:19,340 to the Kingston City Council the 1696 01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:23,580 municipality that Westall is in and I 1697 01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:27,090 asked them to set aside a portion of the 1698 01:21:32,090 --> 01:21:29,610 Grange the Grange is now called The 1699 01:21:35,510 --> 01:21:32,100 Grange reserve it's been turned into a 1700 01:21:37,580 --> 01:21:35,520 park and a a Nature Reserve and I 1701 01:21:41,030 --> 01:21:37,590 requested that the Kingston City Council 1702 01:21:42,180 --> 01:21:41,040 just set aside some of that Grange 1703 01:21:46,110 --> 01:21:42,190 reserved 1704 01:21:51,150 --> 01:21:46,120 as a park a place that commemorates what 1705 01:21:53,100 --> 01:21:51,160 happened in 1966 and one of the 1706 01:21:56,130 --> 01:21:53,110 counselors in particular took up the 1707 01:21:58,560 --> 01:21:56,140 calls on my behalf he happened to be one 1708 01:22:03,479 --> 01:21:58,570 of the counselors responsible for the 1709 01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:03,489 Westall area and he argued the case on 1710 01:22:08,490 --> 01:22:06,489 my behalf in council and as he said to 1711 01:22:11,610 --> 01:22:08,500 me recently he didn't have to argue all 1712 01:22:15,209 --> 01:22:11,620 that hard it was received very warmly by 1713 01:22:17,550 --> 01:22:15,219 most of the other councillors and later 1714 01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:17,560 on in that year they agreed to my 1715 01:22:23,250 --> 01:22:20,410 request and they went much further than 1716 01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:23,260 I could even have imagined and they have 1717 01:22:28,830 --> 01:22:26,290 since developed this wonderful UFO 1718 01:22:31,620 --> 01:22:28,840 themed playground that completely 1719 01:22:33,750 --> 01:22:31,630 reinvigorated the old playground that 1720 01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:33,760 was there they've replaced it and 1721 01:22:39,330 --> 01:22:37,570 installed these state-of-the-art at this 1722 01:22:42,630 --> 01:22:39,340 state-of-the-art playground equipment 1723 01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:42,640 and at the center of it is this amazing 1724 01:22:48,030 --> 01:22:46,210 flying saucer shaped object which is 1725 01:22:50,490 --> 01:22:48,040 based on some of the witness accounts in 1726 01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:50,500 terms of the shape in terms of the 1727 01:22:56,070 --> 01:22:53,650 dimensions they tried very hard to to 1728 01:22:58,620 --> 01:22:56,080 capture those elements and in addition 1729 01:23:02,959 --> 01:22:58,630 to that and I was very very keen for 1730 01:23:05,910 --> 01:23:02,969 this to happen they have set up erected 1731 01:23:08,490 --> 01:23:05,920 interpretive sign boards which tell the 1732 01:23:10,770 --> 01:23:08,500 story of what happened from the 1733 01:23:14,010 --> 01:23:10,780 perspective of the people who were there 1734 01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:14,020 that day so for me it's very much about 1735 01:23:20,459 --> 01:23:17,920 providing a space for the witnesses 1736 01:23:22,740 --> 01:23:20,469 where they can go and feel some sort of 1737 01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:22,750 recognition for what happened and also 1738 01:23:28,229 --> 01:23:25,330 as a place that continues to tell the 1739 01:23:30,900 --> 01:23:28,239 story on their behalf Wow 1740 01:23:33,750 --> 01:23:30,910 that's that's great is there anyone else 1741 01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:33,760 that has looked at making a documentary 1742 01:23:39,870 --> 01:23:37,210 film like say out of country you know 1743 01:23:41,459 --> 01:23:39,880 like anyone in America approached you or 1744 01:23:44,700 --> 01:23:41,469 have talked to you about making a film 1745 01:23:48,180 --> 01:23:44,710 about this incident yes also in addition 1746 01:23:49,410 --> 01:23:48,190 to the Australian documentary we've got 1747 01:23:53,580 --> 01:23:49,420 some very exciting news to share 1748 01:23:54,390 --> 01:23:53,590 actually the in February I traveled to 1749 01:24:03,180 --> 01:23:54,400 to 1750 01:24:08,570 --> 01:24:03,190 the Discovery Channel Canada and Science 1751 01:24:11,430 --> 01:24:08,580 Channel us and it's a new 13-part series 1752 01:24:15,959 --> 01:24:11,440 so they're going to be 13 30-minute 1753 01:24:19,229 --> 01:24:15,969 episodes starting on the 10th of January 1754 01:24:21,950 --> 01:24:19,239 so starting in a few weeks time and it's 1755 01:24:25,169 --> 01:24:21,960 going to be called Close Encounters and 1756 01:24:27,930 --> 01:24:25,179 the Westall incident as well as a few 1757 01:24:32,130 --> 01:24:27,940 other wonderful Australian stories are 1758 01:24:34,890 --> 01:24:32,140 featuring as part of this series and I 1759 01:24:37,229 --> 01:24:34,900 don't know yet at what point the Westall 1760 01:24:38,820 --> 01:24:37,239 story will feature in the episodes I 1761 01:24:41,939 --> 01:24:38,830 don't think it's going to be in the 1762 01:24:44,149 --> 01:24:41,949 first couple but there's already a 1763 01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:44,159 website set up for the Close Encounters 1764 01:24:48,570 --> 01:24:47,290 program and a Facebook page as well so 1765 01:24:50,910 --> 01:24:48,580 they are beginning to provide 1766 01:24:53,970 --> 01:24:50,920 information about it and there's already 1767 01:24:56,070 --> 01:24:53,980 a trailer out for the program because 1768 01:24:59,160 --> 01:24:56,080 let's face it starts on the 10th of 1769 01:25:00,750 --> 01:24:59,170 January in Canada and I've heard it's 1770 01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:00,760 going to be broadcast in the United 1771 01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:04,690 States perhaps a few months after that 1772 01:25:09,180 --> 01:25:07,330 and then hopefully on the Discovery 1773 01:25:12,149 --> 01:25:09,190 Channel Science Channel networks in 1774 01:25:16,169 --> 01:25:12,159 other countries around the world as well 1775 01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:16,179 and then in addition to that just in the 1776 01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:18,130 last few weeks I've traveled down to 1777 01:25:25,770 --> 01:25:22,239 Westall again and we have done some 1778 01:25:28,500 --> 01:25:25,780 filming for an upcoming series for the 1779 01:25:31,020 --> 01:25:28,510 National Geographic TV channel based in 1780 01:25:33,870 --> 01:25:31,030 the United Kingdom and a film crew came 1781 01:25:37,590 --> 01:25:33,880 out from London and they're also doing a 1782 01:25:38,370 --> 01:25:37,600 series on these wonderful enduring still 1783 01:25:40,770 --> 01:25:38,380 unsolved 1784 01:25:43,770 --> 01:25:40,780 UFO mysteries and the Westall incident 1785 01:25:46,110 --> 01:25:43,780 is appearing as part of that series and 1786 01:25:49,410 --> 01:25:46,120 I don't yet know anything about the 1787 01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:49,420 timing for that but presumably it will 1788 01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:51,489 it will be broadcast at some point on 1789 01:25:54,959 --> 01:25:54,370 the National Geographic TV channel next 1790 01:25:56,939 --> 01:25:54,969 year 1791 01:25:58,800 --> 01:25:56,949 wow that's great well you've been a 1792 01:26:00,750 --> 01:25:58,810 wonderful guest where can someone find 1793 01:26:02,879 --> 01:26:00,760 you to be able to send you an email do 1794 01:26:04,590 --> 01:26:02,889 you have a website absolutely I do 1795 01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:04,600 there's a lot of information about the 1796 01:26:08,220 --> 01:26:06,130 West will incident on the Internet of 1797 01:26:10,710 --> 01:26:08,230 course one of the best place 1798 01:26:13,950 --> 01:26:10,720 to go is to the website for the 1799 01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:13,960 documentary and there you can see the 1800 01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:16,690 trailer for the documentary there's also 1801 01:26:21,810 --> 01:26:19,600 a study guide that's been made for the 1802 01:26:23,790 --> 01:26:21,820 documentary a couple of those in fact 1803 01:26:29,820 --> 01:26:23,800 and has just been released in the last 1804 01:26:31,650 --> 01:26:29,830 few weeks a couple of iBooks for the 1805 01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:31,660 West or documentary and they can be 1806 01:26:36,030 --> 01:26:34,210 obtained through iTunes and iBooks and 1807 01:26:38,670 --> 01:26:36,040 you can also message me through that 1808 01:26:44,940 --> 01:26:38,680 website and the address is Westall 1809 01:26:47,580 --> 01:26:44,950 sixty-six UFO dot-com dot a U and in 1810 01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:47,590 addition there's also a West or Flying 1811 01:26:53,550 --> 01:26:51,090 Saucer incident page on Facebook and 1812 01:26:56,250 --> 01:26:53,560 that's where I tend to put a lot of the 1813 01:26:57,990 --> 01:26:56,260 information especially photographs in 1814 01:27:00,030 --> 01:26:58,000 relation to the West or story and 1815 01:27:02,490 --> 01:27:00,040 developments in relation to the West or 1816 01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:02,500 story such as the West or playground on 1817 01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:04,570 that particular site and you can find 1818 01:27:10,440 --> 01:27:07,450 that easily on Facebook and there's also 1819 01:27:12,510 --> 01:27:10,450 a yahoo groups website and I mentioned 1820 01:27:16,530 --> 01:27:12,520 that because that's the original website 1821 01:27:18,870 --> 01:27:16,540 I set up way back in 2005 as a way of 1822 01:27:20,820 --> 01:27:18,880 putting the feelers out in cyberspace to 1823 01:27:23,130 --> 01:27:20,830 see if there was anyone out there who 1824 01:27:25,350 --> 01:27:23,140 remembered the West or story and that 1825 01:27:27,390 --> 01:27:25,360 was the initial contact I had the 1826 01:27:30,060 --> 01:27:27,400 initial point for contact I had prom 1827 01:27:31,260 --> 01:27:30,070 some of the original witnesses and even 1828 01:27:33,870 --> 01:27:31,270 though it's a little bit of an outdated 1829 01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:33,880 format it's still in operation and 1830 01:27:38,970 --> 01:27:35,370 there's a lot of information on that 1831 01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:38,980 particular yahoogroups web site a lot of 1832 01:27:44,250 --> 01:27:41,610 files and links and messages from 1833 01:27:46,950 --> 01:27:44,260 witnesses and if you just in your search 1834 01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:46,960 engine search for Westall high school 1835 01:27:53,220 --> 01:27:49,930 UFO on yahoogroups 1836 01:27:55,290 --> 01:27:53,230 you're sure to find it well well great 1837 01:27:58,020 --> 01:27:55,300 Shane it's been a real pleasure I really 1838 01:28:00,600 --> 01:27:58,030 enjoyed speaking with you and hope that 1839 01:28:02,940 --> 01:28:00,610 this incident gets a lot more 1840 01:28:05,820 --> 01:28:02,950 recognition worldwide Martin thank you 1841 01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:05,830 so much for your for your time I do 1842 01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:07,690 really appreciate it and I know all of 1843 01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:09,250 the people who are involved in the west 1844 01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:11,130 of incident the witnesses in particular 1845 01:28:16,709 --> 01:28:14,050 appreciate you providing this time and 1846 01:28:18,150 --> 01:28:16,719 thank you so much thank you for 1847 01:28:19,500 --> 01:28:18,160 listening to our show and please 1848 01:28:22,050 --> 01:28:19,510 remember to check out our website 1849 01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:22,060 podcast UFO calm 1850 01:28:27,060 --> 01:28:24,730 for the latest blogs and forums we'll be